Comments on: Capitalism is Against the Law (The 2nd Law of Thermdynamics) Part 2 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2005/02/08/capitalism-is-against-the-law-the-2nd-law-of-thermdynamics-part-2/ Making the Connections Tue, 16 Mar 2010 14:53:29 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Jon http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2005/02/08/capitalism-is-against-the-law-the-2nd-law-of-thermdynamics-part-2/#comment-1784 Jon Mon, 18 Jul 2005 08:26:19 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2005/02/08/capitalism-is-against-the-law-the-2nd-law-of-thermdynamics-part-2/#comment-1784 Well their is one technological innovation that can creat a surplus of hydrogen, unfortunetly it was invented several hundred million years ago in the act of photosynthetic cell that split water with the help of the CO2. I saw some CBS dateline crap that had a bourgoise scientist investigating this proccess so that capitalism will not fall under the greed that has consumed its rescources. Its not that I dont beleive such technology could be found and possibly utilsed for economic benefits, just not under capitalism- I sight a Scientific American article I read awhile back that makes many of the same economic analysis(though much more cynical and undialectical) as you do on what it will take to invest to get the INFRUSTRUCTURE to make such technology on a mass scale. I want to read all the articles before I make a more indepth response, but my reply to Greg would be to state that in a socialist economy, the economic system itself needs to be a regulating function that is conciously attached to natures laws. Such a system should in its entropy contribute to some neich in nature that would make a surplus that could be utilised at a later date. Well their is one technological innovation that can creat a surplus of hydrogen, unfortunetly it was invented several hundred million years ago in the act of photosynthetic cell that split water with the help of the CO2.
I saw some CBS dateline crap that had a bourgoise scientist investigating this proccess so that capitalism will not fall under the greed that has consumed its rescources.
Its not that I dont beleive such technology could be found and possibly utilsed for economic benefits, just not under capitalism- I sight a Scientific American article I read awhile back that makes many of the same economic analysis(though much more cynical and undialectical) as you do on what it will take to invest to get the INFRUSTRUCTURE to make such technology on a mass scale.
I want to read all the articles before I make a more indepth response, but my reply to Greg would be to state that in a socialist economy, the economic system itself needs to be a regulating function that is conciously attached to natures laws.
Such a system should in its entropy contribute to some neich in nature that would make a surplus that could be utilised at a later date.

]]> By: Gregory Denby http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2005/02/08/capitalism-is-against-the-law-the-2nd-law-of-thermdynamics-part-2/#comment-121 Gregory Denby Mon, 07 Mar 2005 17:52:43 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2005/02/08/capitalism-is-against-the-law-the-2nd-law-of-thermdynamics-part-2/#comment-121 Stan, I've been reading over your compilations on energy, and they seem very thorough. I fear, though, that the implications of the thermodynamic problem, the spewing of entropic energy into the system, seems to be a problem larger than that of capitalism or imperialism. That is, economic and political systems should be able to be made workable, but almost all technology from camp fires on up disappate energy. So it would seem that to a certain extent, any economic system would end up causing some entropy. Any ideas on how different economic set-ups would improve the problems of waste energy? Here's a small niggle with your article. You write "Hydrogen is not really a fuel, but an energy carrier and therefore an energy sink." If hydrogen is not a fuel, what is? Do you mean hydrogen is not energy in and of itself (other than in the E = mc2 sene)? And as a by the way, while photovoltaics may not yet have produced any more energy than has gone into their making, some people at least might free themselvews of the kind of criminal madness described at http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=211&row=1, wherein is described not how power generation is wasteful, but how it can be used as a vehicle for theft, pure and simple. By for now, hope you had a nice trip. Call me Ishmael, and show me the life boat Stan,

I’ve been reading over your compilations on energy, and they seem very thorough. I fear, though, that the implications of the thermodynamic problem, the spewing of entropic energy into the system, seems to be a problem larger than that of capitalism or imperialism. That is, economic and political systems should be able to be made workable, but almost all technology from camp fires on up disappate energy. So it would seem that to a certain extent, any economic system would end up causing some entropy. Any ideas on how different economic set-ups would improve the problems of waste energy?

Here’s a small niggle with your article. You write “Hydrogen is not really a fuel, but an energy carrier and therefore an energy sink.” If hydrogen is not a fuel, what is? Do you mean hydrogen is not energy in and of itself (other than in the E = mc2 sene)?

And as a by the way, while photovoltaics may not yet have produced any more energy than has gone into their making, some people at least might free themselvews of the kind of criminal madness described at
http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=211&row=1, wherein is described not how power generation is wasteful, but how it can be used as a vehicle for theft, pure and simple.

By for now, hope you had a nice trip.

Call me Ishmael, and show me the life boat

]]> By: Stan http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2005/02/08/capitalism-is-against-the-law-the-2nd-law-of-thermdynamics-part-2/#comment-72 Stan Sun, 20 Feb 2005 18:47:11 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2005/02/08/capitalism-is-against-the-law-the-2nd-law-of-thermdynamics-part-2/#comment-72 There is one good reason that the ruling class hires scientists to issue fake research to deny global warming, et al. If people really come to terms with how unspeakably stupid this system is and how unspeakably awful its consequences are likely to be, they would rise up and overthrow the whole thing in a day. There is one good reason that the ruling class hires scientists to issue fake research to deny global warming, et al. If people really come to terms with how unspeakably stupid this system is and how unspeakably awful its consequences are likely to be, they would rise up and overthrow the whole thing in a day.

]]> By: eatingkimchi http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2005/02/08/capitalism-is-against-the-law-the-2nd-law-of-thermdynamics-part-2/#comment-68 eatingkimchi Sun, 20 Feb 2005 16:50:00 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2005/02/08/capitalism-is-against-the-law-the-2nd-law-of-thermdynamics-part-2/#comment-68 This is an aside to the whole eco-arguement and I would like people's insights and inputs. So basically most people agree that the gas byproducts of industrialization has sped up the carbon cycle (even the Bush junta has stated as much). My question is this: What do you think will happen when the temperatures at the extreme northern and southern reaches of the globe get to the point where it melts the permafrost? The point being that the year round freezing temperatures fix incredible amounts of carbon dioxide and methane in the ground. When the permafrost melts, there is a possiblity that these greenhouse gases that were fixed in the ground will escape into the atmosphere. Potentially causing a geometric increase of free greenhouse gases in the air and then... I don't know the timeframe for this scenario but I know that the permafrost is melting, in parts, as we read this. Basically if this scenario is sound then it bodes ill for us hairless apes. This scenario has been on my mind for awhile and would like different perspectives and interpretations. This is an aside to the whole eco-arguement and I would like people’s insights and inputs.

So basically most people agree that the gas byproducts of industrialization has sped up the carbon cycle (even the Bush junta has stated as much).

My question is this: What do you think will happen when the temperatures at the extreme northern and southern reaches of the globe get to the point where it melts the permafrost?

The point being that the year round freezing temperatures fix incredible amounts of carbon dioxide and methane in the ground. When the permafrost melts, there is a possiblity that these greenhouse gases that were fixed in the ground will escape into the atmosphere. Potentially causing a geometric increase of free greenhouse gases in the air and then…

I don’t know the timeframe for this scenario but I know that the permafrost is melting, in parts, as we read this.

Basically if this scenario is sound then it bodes ill for us hairless apes.

This scenario has been on my mind for awhile and would like different perspectives and interpretations.

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