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	<title>Comments on: Interview with a DC window dresser</title>
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	<link>http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2005/10/10/coming-tomorrow-interview-with-q-dc-window-dresser/</link>
	<description>Making the Connections</description>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2005/10/10/coming-tomorrow-interview-with-q-dc-window-dresser/#comment-94131</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2007 16:40:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feralscholar.org/blog/?p=193#comment-94131</guid>
		<description>hi, do you mind if i use that picture for my school newspaper?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi, do you mind if i use that picture for my school newspaper?</p>
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		<title>By: DeAnander</title>
		<link>http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2005/10/10/coming-tomorrow-interview-with-q-dc-window-dresser/#comment-3166</link>
		<dc:creator>DeAnander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Oct 2005 21:15:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feralscholar.org/blog/?p=193#comment-3166</guid>
		<description>yup -- my address, yours, all of ours... our complicity is one ingredient in our futility... but back to maps and topology...

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.counterpunch.org/engel02142003.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Israeli architects analyse the vertical urban form of occupation&lt;/a&gt;

a radical interpretation of architectural and geopositional data...

---

I believe more and more that the only way to prepare for a takedown of the moribund and wildly thrashing System is to build parallel structures inside it... parallel marketplaces, cultural networks, decision making apparatus, conflict resolution methodsl etc.  some of this is already happening with Fair Trade and CSA efforts, community currencies, arbitration outside the CJS, home schooling, municipalities adopting Kyoto protocol in defiance of the Fed, etc.

it may be that the best takedown is a supplanting -- the construction of a new social form inside the shell of the old.  this does not really address deep issues like patriarchy which persist across econ and social reforms, but it offers a way to leach power out of the System in a zillion TAZs rather than attempting an all out &quot;red October&quot; slugfest with a vastly overarmed opponent...

perhaps the best revenge on authoritarians is to render them irrelevant?  I don&#039;t imagine they will let go without more flailing attempts at coercion, more violence, more tragedies -- but seems to me there has to be an armature in place for the New Thing before the Old Thing comes down.  where there&#039;s a vacuum, new authoritarians seem to spring up like dragon&#039;s teeth....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yup &#8212; my address, yours, all of ours&#8230; our complicity is one ingredient in our futility&#8230; but back to maps and topology&#8230;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.counterpunch.org/engel02142003.html" rel="nofollow">Israeli architects analyse the vertical urban form of occupation</a></p>
<p>a radical interpretation of architectural and geopositional data&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8212;</p>
<p>I believe more and more that the only way to prepare for a takedown of the moribund and wildly thrashing System is to build parallel structures inside it&#8230; parallel marketplaces, cultural networks, decision making apparatus, conflict resolution methodsl etc.  some of this is already happening with Fair Trade and CSA efforts, community currencies, arbitration outside the CJS, home schooling, municipalities adopting Kyoto protocol in defiance of the Fed, etc.</p>
<p>it may be that the best takedown is a supplanting &#8212; the construction of a new social form inside the shell of the old.  this does not really address deep issues like patriarchy which persist across econ and social reforms, but it offers a way to leach power out of the System in a zillion TAZs rather than attempting an all out &#8220;red October&#8221; slugfest with a vastly overarmed opponent&#8230;</p>
<p>perhaps the best revenge on authoritarians is to render them irrelevant?  I don&#8217;t imagine they will let go without more flailing attempts at coercion, more violence, more tragedies &#8212; but seems to me there has to be an armature in place for the New Thing before the Old Thing comes down.  where there&#8217;s a vacuum, new authoritarians seem to spring up like dragon&#8217;s teeth&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Stan</title>
		<link>http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2005/10/10/coming-tomorrow-interview-with-q-dc-window-dresser/#comment-3135</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Oct 2005 10:32:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feralscholar.org/blog/?p=193#comment-3135</guid>
		<description>&quot;The earth is not dying. It is being killed, and the people killing it have names and addresses.&quot;

- Utah Phillips

Maps are about understanding the terrain you can&#039;t see, relating it to the terrain you can see, and finding the names and addresses.

On Peggy&#039;s last question, that&#039; a big dilemma for many, maybe THE big one.  Inside-outside strategy mixes, perhaps.  But Marx pointed out that a system doesn&#039;t get torn down from outside.  It dies from internal contradictions.  I&#039;m still a fan of the notion that the first priority is to refound a viable left that is devoted to siezing political power in the metropoles.  My question from the organizing perspective is who are those who are (1) positioned to do the most damage to the system from the inside and (2) who are those who have already been expelled to the greatest degree from the system?  That takes us from GI resistance to the Tamil Tigers.  (-:  Inside-outside.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The earth is not dying. It is being killed, and the people killing it have names and addresses.&#8221;</p>
<p>- Utah Phillips</p>
<p>Maps are about understanding the terrain you can&#8217;t see, relating it to the terrain you can see, and finding the names and addresses.</p>
<p>On Peggy&#8217;s last question, that&#8217; a big dilemma for many, maybe THE big one.  Inside-outside strategy mixes, perhaps.  But Marx pointed out that a system doesn&#8217;t get torn down from outside.  It dies from internal contradictions.  I&#8217;m still a fan of the notion that the first priority is to refound a viable left that is devoted to siezing political power in the metropoles.  My question from the organizing perspective is who are those who are (1) positioned to do the most damage to the system from the inside and (2) who are those who have already been expelled to the greatest degree from the system?  That takes us from GI resistance to the Tamil Tigers.  (-:  Inside-outside.</p>
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		<title>By: Doctor D.</title>
		<link>http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2005/10/10/coming-tomorrow-interview-with-q-dc-window-dresser/#comment-3134</link>
		<dc:creator>Doctor D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Oct 2005 09:27:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feralscholar.org/blog/?p=193#comment-3134</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a political science major, urban studies minor. First of all, Steve is 100% spot on about the political and class dimension of GIS and databases. The big thing most politicians use for mailings, fundraising letters, etc. - they&#039;re called &quot;Prime Voter Lists&quot; here in NY, and they&#039;re published databases on CD-ROMs. They&#039;re lists of people who vote, every election (Primary, General, city, state and federal). NOT coincidentally, the persons on these lists happen to also skew toward the higher end of the wealth scale. 

What&#039;s interesting is that in New York, at least, Grand Juries are picked with these Prime Voter lists, unlike regular juries which pull from general tax records and drivers licenses. Basically, you&#039;re taking people who skew to the higher end of the wealth scale, and people who have tended to vote for the DA/Attorney General. Little wonder they say you can indict a ham sandwich!

What&#039;s also interesting is that while these Prime Voter lists can be bought for a few dollars usually (they&#039;re covered by Freedom of Information here), they&#039;re essentially useless as an analytical tool unless you can plug the data into a GIS mapping program. A nonprofit I worked for had to learn this the hard way when they tried a voter drive. It&#039;s easy to spot those Prime Voters - it&#039;s much harder to figure out where, exactly, are the non-Prime Voters and non-voters and those ineligible to vote are.

From my own perspective, GIS is to the class war what the Enigma crypto machine was to WWII. You&#039;ll recall that Enigma was an almost unbreakable coding system the Nazis had, that involved a machine that scrambled a message, as well as code books that told you how to set the machine each day. The only chance the Brits got to crack the code was by getting their own Enigma machine secretly off a U-boat, and even then because there was no code book it still took hours and days. 

So too does GIS has the potential to help revolutionaries &quot;crack the code&quot; of the ruling class in its class war, to be able to map out and understand that they&#039;re going after this or that social strata in this or that area for Army recruitment. But there&#039;s still intellect and instinct involved - one has to know where exactly to look.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a political science major, urban studies minor. First of all, Steve is 100% spot on about the political and class dimension of GIS and databases. The big thing most politicians use for mailings, fundraising letters, etc. &#8211; they&#8217;re called &#8220;Prime Voter Lists&#8221; here in NY, and they&#8217;re published databases on CD-ROMs. They&#8217;re lists of people who vote, every election (Primary, General, city, state and federal). NOT coincidentally, the persons on these lists happen to also skew toward the higher end of the wealth scale. </p>
<p>What&#8217;s interesting is that in New York, at least, Grand Juries are picked with these Prime Voter lists, unlike regular juries which pull from general tax records and drivers licenses. Basically, you&#8217;re taking people who skew to the higher end of the wealth scale, and people who have tended to vote for the DA/Attorney General. Little wonder they say you can indict a ham sandwich!</p>
<p>What&#8217;s also interesting is that while these Prime Voter lists can be bought for a few dollars usually (they&#8217;re covered by Freedom of Information here), they&#8217;re essentially useless as an analytical tool unless you can plug the data into a GIS mapping program. A nonprofit I worked for had to learn this the hard way when they tried a voter drive. It&#8217;s easy to spot those Prime Voters &#8211; it&#8217;s much harder to figure out where, exactly, are the non-Prime Voters and non-voters and those ineligible to vote are.</p>
<p>From my own perspective, GIS is to the class war what the Enigma crypto machine was to WWII. You&#8217;ll recall that Enigma was an almost unbreakable coding system the Nazis had, that involved a machine that scrambled a message, as well as code books that told you how to set the machine each day. The only chance the Brits got to crack the code was by getting their own Enigma machine secretly off a U-boat, and even then because there was no code book it still took hours and days. </p>
<p>So too does GIS has the potential to help revolutionaries &#8220;crack the code&#8221; of the ruling class in its class war, to be able to map out and understand that they&#8217;re going after this or that social strata in this or that area for Army recruitment. But there&#8217;s still intellect and instinct involved &#8211; one has to know where exactly to look.</p>
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		<title>By: peggy</title>
		<link>http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2005/10/10/coming-tomorrow-interview-with-q-dc-window-dresser/#comment-3131</link>
		<dc:creator>peggy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Oct 2005 06:33:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feralscholar.org/blog/?p=193#comment-3131</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s just a point of view.

Money - like the five dollars in my pocket - is a sign of a piece of a vast system of credit-and-debit.  This system has become fully symbolic, in both the Peircean and the Saussurian senses.  This means that the symbol is arbitrary (Saussure), and neither similar nor physically connected to (Peirce)the thing that it symbolizes.  The symbol system is pure idea, and therefore unable to be attained in real life (Lacan).  It is just a fantasy, an ideal, that people pursue.  Their pursuit of the fantasy maintains the fantasy, while their lives fall into ruin.

The symbol system which is money controls the entire present human world.  One cannot live as a human being outside of this system.  Previously, human beings could live within smaller systems of mutual interdependence, but now we cannot.  Not a single human being can live outside the system of money.

In principle, when you buy a thing or a service, you pay for the labor that went into producing and delivering that thing. I get money for the products of my labor, and I pay money for the products of other people&#039;s labor.  But not all labor is the same.  One may try to render different kinds of labor quantitatively commensurable, but this is the first mistake.  Some things, many things, cannot be reduced to money, a quantitative measure of qualitative value.

Commodity fetishism divorces the thing from the labor.

Capitalism reifies (&quot;makes a thing of&quot;) the symbol system itself.  From money (a mere idea) is produced more money, via interest rates and the market and so on.  Nothing produces more nothing, and more nothing is exchanged for real material life (labor, food, water, air, space, time, and all the rest).  Thus life is consumed.

The question is, how do we get out of this system?  More quantification of life? More use of the master&#039;s tools?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s just a point of view.</p>
<p>Money &#8211; like the five dollars in my pocket &#8211; is a sign of a piece of a vast system of credit-and-debit.  This system has become fully symbolic, in both the Peircean and the Saussurian senses.  This means that the symbol is arbitrary (Saussure), and neither similar nor physically connected to (Peirce)the thing that it symbolizes.  The symbol system is pure idea, and therefore unable to be attained in real life (Lacan).  It is just a fantasy, an ideal, that people pursue.  Their pursuit of the fantasy maintains the fantasy, while their lives fall into ruin.</p>
<p>The symbol system which is money controls the entire present human world.  One cannot live as a human being outside of this system.  Previously, human beings could live within smaller systems of mutual interdependence, but now we cannot.  Not a single human being can live outside the system of money.</p>
<p>In principle, when you buy a thing or a service, you pay for the labor that went into producing and delivering that thing. I get money for the products of my labor, and I pay money for the products of other people&#8217;s labor.  But not all labor is the same.  One may try to render different kinds of labor quantitatively commensurable, but this is the first mistake.  Some things, many things, cannot be reduced to money, a quantitative measure of qualitative value.</p>
<p>Commodity fetishism divorces the thing from the labor.</p>
<p>Capitalism reifies (&#8220;makes a thing of&#8221;) the symbol system itself.  From money (a mere idea) is produced more money, via interest rates and the market and so on.  Nothing produces more nothing, and more nothing is exchanged for real material life (labor, food, water, air, space, time, and all the rest).  Thus life is consumed.</p>
<p>The question is, how do we get out of this system?  More quantification of life? More use of the master&#8217;s tools?</p>
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		<title>By: Stan</title>
		<link>http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2005/10/10/coming-tomorrow-interview-with-q-dc-window-dresser/#comment-3097</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Oct 2005 02:12:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feralscholar.org/blog/?p=193#comment-3097</guid>
		<description>As long as we are talking Marxism and geography, I&#039;ll drop another name:  the late Jim Blaut.

http://www.geog.buffalo.edu/ncgia/i21/papers/blaut_ToC.html

http://www.columbia.edu/~lnp3/mydocs/Blaut/national_question3.htm </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As long as we are talking Marxism and geography, I&#8217;ll drop another name:  the late Jim Blaut.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.geog.buffalo.edu/ncgia/i21/papers/blaut_ToC.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.geog.buffalo.edu/ncgia/i21/papers/blaut_ToC.html</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.columbia.edu/~lnp3/mydocs/Blaut/national_question3.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.columbia.edu/~lnp3/mydocs/Blaut/national_question3.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Myles</title>
		<link>http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2005/10/10/coming-tomorrow-interview-with-q-dc-window-dresser/#comment-3083</link>
		<dc:creator>Myles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Oct 2005 21:37:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feralscholar.org/blog/?p=193#comment-3083</guid>
		<description>I recently read Samir Amin&#039;s Liberal Virus and am working on Manuel Castell&#039;s Network Socety.  I am finding these books to be very useful in understanding this spatially global neoliberal form of capitalism.  Now that capitalism is so totally global I think world systems theory is very useful in tandem with network theory for understanding human migration, information networks,impreialism, commodity chains, and capital flows.

In the current age shutting off a production node or slowing down a distribution flow could be a major form of resistance with global ramifications.  This is especially true for commodities like oil.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recently read Samir Amin&#8217;s Liberal Virus and am working on Manuel Castell&#8217;s Network Socety.  I am finding these books to be very useful in understanding this spatially global neoliberal form of capitalism.  Now that capitalism is so totally global I think world systems theory is very useful in tandem with network theory for understanding human migration, information networks,impreialism, commodity chains, and capital flows.</p>
<p>In the current age shutting off a production node or slowing down a distribution flow could be a major form of resistance with global ramifications.  This is especially true for commodities like oil.</p>
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		<title>By: Myles</title>
		<link>http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2005/10/10/coming-tomorrow-interview-with-q-dc-window-dresser/#comment-3082</link>
		<dc:creator>Myles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Oct 2005 21:28:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feralscholar.org/blog/?p=193#comment-3082</guid>
		<description>Very cool interview.  In my own studies of communication networks I am covering the relationship to space, class, and information access. My girlfriend is doing a study of language and class differences spread over urban space.  It was great to read this interview with Steve, I really like his ideas and the elaboration of how they can be used for Marxist praxis and analysis.  

It is very refreshing to have an online resource where Marxists and other leftists engage construcively with feminism, postmodernism, etc.  
I totally agree that we have to engage with theoretical tools that have been developed since Lenin&#039;s death.  The problem is all the socialist groups I have worked with are incredibly hostile to the Frankfurt school, postmodernism, critical race theory, feminism...there is this comforting introjected delusion of ultra-orthodox Marxists that the capitalism of today is the same capitalism that was around 10, 20, or one hundred years ago!

As far as class and race existing in space, all one has to do is look at who lives in the rich hills and who lives in the swampy valleys to see how important the issue of human dispersal in space is.  Where I work the employees are arranged vertically according to heirarchical position-it is the Great Chain of Capitalist Being saturating the physical environment/symbolic environment.  We live in space and time, and inhabit a human discursive culture that arises from a pre-discursive material existence.  Steve&#039;s ideas are very important for understanding the way capitalism moves into and reifies our public and private spaces.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very cool interview.  In my own studies of communication networks I am covering the relationship to space, class, and information access. My girlfriend is doing a study of language and class differences spread over urban space.  It was great to read this interview with Steve, I really like his ideas and the elaboration of how they can be used for Marxist praxis and analysis.  </p>
<p>It is very refreshing to have an online resource where Marxists and other leftists engage construcively with feminism, postmodernism, etc.<br />
I totally agree that we have to engage with theoretical tools that have been developed since Lenin&#8217;s death.  The problem is all the socialist groups I have worked with are incredibly hostile to the Frankfurt school, postmodernism, critical race theory, feminism&#8230;there is this comforting introjected delusion of ultra-orthodox Marxists that the capitalism of today is the same capitalism that was around 10, 20, or one hundred years ago!</p>
<p>As far as class and race existing in space, all one has to do is look at who lives in the rich hills and who lives in the swampy valleys to see how important the issue of human dispersal in space is.  Where I work the employees are arranged vertically according to heirarchical position-it is the Great Chain of Capitalist Being saturating the physical environment/symbolic environment.  We live in space and time, and inhabit a human discursive culture that arises from a pre-discursive material existence.  Steve&#8217;s ideas are very important for understanding the way capitalism moves into and reifies our public and private spaces.</p>
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		<title>By: Josiah</title>
		<link>http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2005/10/10/coming-tomorrow-interview-with-q-dc-window-dresser/#comment-3075</link>
		<dc:creator>Josiah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Oct 2005 19:57:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feralscholar.org/blog/?p=193#comment-3075</guid>
		<description>One of Hornborg&#039;s most salient points, IMO, is that the neo-classical lie of &quot;natural&quot; economic laws, and the trend toward greater and greater semiotic abstraction, began with British economists writing at the height of British imperial power. Adam Smith, David Ricardo and Thomas Malthus, different as they were, all accepted a cornucopia model of growth kickstarted by an initial accumulation of capital. What Marx demonstrated, of course, was that this &quot;primitive accumulation&quot; (based on, as he put it, the &quot;enslavement, extirpation, and entombment of the aboriginals,&quot; the &quot;hunting of &quot;black-skins&quot; and the looting of the East Indies) laid the groundwork for a dissipative, self-consuming model. But Hornborg argues that Marx had his own &quot;cornucopia&quot; in mind, in the sense that he believed the whole world could be industrialized under socialism. Nowadays (as I think you have demonstrated very well in essays such as Persian Peril) we know there isn&#039;t enough oil, rainforest timber or even ozone layer for everybody to live like middle-class Americans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of Hornborg&#8217;s most salient points, IMO, is that the neo-classical lie of &#8220;natural&#8221; economic laws, and the trend toward greater and greater semiotic abstraction, began with British economists writing at the height of British imperial power. Adam Smith, David Ricardo and Thomas Malthus, different as they were, all accepted a cornucopia model of growth kickstarted by an initial accumulation of capital. What Marx demonstrated, of course, was that this &#8220;primitive accumulation&#8221; (based on, as he put it, the &#8220;enslavement, extirpation, and entombment of the aboriginals,&#8221; the &#8220;hunting of &#8220;black-skins&#8221; and the looting of the East Indies) laid the groundwork for a dissipative, self-consuming model. But Hornborg argues that Marx had his own &#8220;cornucopia&#8221; in mind, in the sense that he believed the whole world could be industrialized under socialism. Nowadays (as I think you have demonstrated very well in essays such as Persian Peril) we know there isn&#8217;t enough oil, rainforest timber or even ozone layer for everybody to live like middle-class Americans.</p>
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		<title>By: Stan</title>
		<link>http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2005/10/10/coming-tomorrow-interview-with-q-dc-window-dresser/#comment-3073</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Oct 2005 18:21:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feralscholar.org/blog/?p=193#comment-3073</guid>
		<description>On  money:

&quot;From a semiotic perspective, as we pass from the premodern to the modern
to the postmodern categories, we see in the evolution of money an increas-
ing arbitrariness of the sign-object relation.  This movement toward
semiotic abstraction can be described either in Saussurian or Peircean
terms.

&quot;If the point of departure is Saussure&#039;s dyadic approach, we observe that
money has historically tended to repeatedly convert signifiers into sig-
nifieds, where each conversion results in a more abstract sign.  Initially
gold signified exchange value.  Then paper money came to signify gold.
Now electronic money has come to signify paper money.  Hornborg says,
&quot;We are thus faced with a chain of signifier-signified relations in which
increasingly abstract signifiers tend to eclipse their more tangible
predecessors, and in which the connection to the original and most
concrete signified (gold) has dissolved.&quot;

&quot;Or, if we prefer Peirce&#039;s triadic approach, a similar analysis is possi-
ble using Peirce&#039;s concepts of &quot;firstness,&quot; &quot;secondness,&quot; and &quot;thirdness.&quot;
Hornborg provides the following brief definitions for these terms, in
Peirce&#039;s own words:

&quot;&quot;The first is that whose being is simply in itself, not referring to
anything nor lying behind anything.  The second is that which is what
it is by force of something to which it is second.  The third is that
which is what it is owing to things between which it mediates and which
it brings into relation to each other.&quot;

&quot;Hornborg credits Marx&#039;s concept of money fetishism with increasing our
awareness of the historical emergence of money&#039;s &quot;thirdness,&quot; and then
he adds:

&quot;&quot;In the first interpretation, the sign ~is~ the object or essence to
which it refers (the value of gold).  In the second, the sign ~represents~
the object (paper money referring to a gold standard).  In the third, the
sign ~mediates a relation between~ objects (money representing not an
essential value but a relation of exchange between humans).  In this final
understanding of the sign nature of money, it becomes obvious that money
is nothing in itself, nor does it even refer to an object; it only
mediates social relations.  In the movement from firstness through
secondness to thirdness, money metamorphosed from index to symbol and
then into an &#039;empty&#039; sign that stands only for itself.&quot;

&quot;Hornborg believes that money is a highly unusual semiotic phenomenon...&quot;

full at:

http://vega.vcu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0305&amp;L=rosen-l&amp;T=0&amp;F=&amp;S=&amp;P=8070 

There is more if you google &quot;hornborg&quot; and &quot;money,&quot; but it requires at least a passing familiarity with semiotics - which I believe the left has to get its head around anyway IAW Steve&#039;s assertion that we need the new tools that have been developed in the eight decades since Lenin died.

Semiotics draws out the connection between the spatial relations of capital, money, and ecology.  Hornborg&#039;s explanation of general purpose, highly abstracted &quot;thirdness&quot; money (the internatinoal US-dollar standard) is that if money were music, this is music with only one note.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On  money:</p>
<p>&#8220;From a semiotic perspective, as we pass from the premodern to the modern<br />
to the postmodern categories, we see in the evolution of money an increas-<br />
ing arbitrariness of the sign-object relation.  This movement toward<br />
semiotic abstraction can be described either in Saussurian or Peircean<br />
terms.</p>
<p>&#8220;If the point of departure is Saussure&#8217;s dyadic approach, we observe that<br />
money has historically tended to repeatedly convert signifiers into sig-<br />
nifieds, where each conversion results in a more abstract sign.  Initially<br />
gold signified exchange value.  Then paper money came to signify gold.<br />
Now electronic money has come to signify paper money.  Hornborg says,<br />
&#8220;We are thus faced with a chain of signifier-signified relations in which<br />
increasingly abstract signifiers tend to eclipse their more tangible<br />
predecessors, and in which the connection to the original and most<br />
concrete signified (gold) has dissolved.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Or, if we prefer Peirce&#8217;s triadic approach, a similar analysis is possi-<br />
ble using Peirce&#8217;s concepts of &#8220;firstness,&#8221; &#8220;secondness,&#8221; and &#8220;thirdness.&#8221;<br />
Hornborg provides the following brief definitions for these terms, in<br />
Peirce&#8217;s own words:</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8221;The first is that whose being is simply in itself, not referring to<br />
anything nor lying behind anything.  The second is that which is what<br />
it is by force of something to which it is second.  The third is that<br />
which is what it is owing to things between which it mediates and which<br />
it brings into relation to each other.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Hornborg credits Marx&#8217;s concept of money fetishism with increasing our<br />
awareness of the historical emergence of money&#8217;s &#8220;thirdness,&#8221; and then<br />
he adds:</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8221;In the first interpretation, the sign ~is~ the object or essence to<br />
which it refers (the value of gold).  In the second, the sign ~represents~<br />
the object (paper money referring to a gold standard).  In the third, the<br />
sign ~mediates a relation between~ objects (money representing not an<br />
essential value but a relation of exchange between humans).  In this final<br />
understanding of the sign nature of money, it becomes obvious that money<br />
is nothing in itself, nor does it even refer to an object; it only<br />
mediates social relations.  In the movement from firstness through<br />
secondness to thirdness, money metamorphosed from index to symbol and<br />
then into an &#8216;empty&#8217; sign that stands only for itself.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Hornborg believes that money is a highly unusual semiotic phenomenon&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>full at:</p>
<p><a href="http://vega.vcu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0305&amp;L=rosen-l&amp;T=0&amp;F=&amp;S=&amp;P=8070" rel="nofollow">http://vega.vcu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0305&amp;L=rosen-l&amp;T=0&amp;F=&amp;S=&amp;P=8070</a> </p>
<p>There is more if you google &#8220;hornborg&#8221; and &#8220;money,&#8221; but it requires at least a passing familiarity with semiotics &#8211; which I believe the left has to get its head around anyway IAW Steve&#8217;s assertion that we need the new tools that have been developed in the eight decades since Lenin died.</p>
<p>Semiotics draws out the connection between the spatial relations of capital, money, and ecology.  Hornborg&#8217;s explanation of general purpose, highly abstracted &#8220;thirdness&#8221; money (the internatinoal US-dollar standard) is that if money were music, this is music with only one note.</p>
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