Comments on: General Hayden and the Democratic Party http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/05/13/hayden-and-the-democratic-party/ Making the Connections Fri, 10 Sep 2010 19:31:05 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Mark http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/05/13/hayden-and-the-democratic-party/#comment-15795 Mark Sat, 03 Jun 2006 19:03:28 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/05/13/hayden-and-the-democratic-party/#comment-15795 I'm sorry Jim but as my grandmother always told me "Hope in one hand, crap in the other, and see which fills up first." I'm among those trying to build an alternative, but nothing new is going to have the space necessary to really grow until the Democrats are torn down. The illusory opposition needs to end so some real opposition can take over. That of course means a period of very real struggle and hardship; not a popular message, but one people need to hear. I’m sorry Jim but as my grandmother always told me “Hope in one hand, crap in the other, and see which fills up first.” I’m among those trying to build an alternative, but nothing new is going to have the space necessary to really grow until the Democrats are torn down. The illusory opposition needs to end so some real opposition can take over. That of course means a period of very real struggle and hardship; not a popular message, but one people need to hear.

]]> By: COMtns http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/05/13/hayden-and-the-democratic-party/#comment-15768 COMtns Sat, 03 Jun 2006 00:42:29 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/05/13/hayden-and-the-democratic-party/#comment-15768 Its a mistake to try to compare American fascism with German fascism by arguing specifics. Yes, German fascism was based on the idea of a master race. But that doesn't mean that American fascism has to be based on the same exact idea. American fascism can take its own course, but still be just as nasty all the same. What's to be gained by following the Democrats at this time. They refuse to provide any real alternative or opposition to the Republicans. In fact, they seem to be positioning themselves the same as in 1992. In 1992, the American people had abandoned the idea of continuing to support the Republicans. Bush I was running below 40% in the polls, and it was clear he could not be re-elected. So the Democrats stepped in to continue the Republican platform until such a time that the Republicans had regained credibility and could be returned to office. Look at the Clinton years ... you've got foreign wars and bombings. Not on the scale of Bush, but still a lot of people were being killed and tortured by death squads and American bombs. You've got Welfare Reform dismantling part of the New Deal. You've got the WTO and NAFTA and the beginnings of the out-sourcing of America's jobs overseas. Basically, you've got an agenda that is awfully pro-corporate republican. Its just that the Republicans couldn't have passed it in the 90's so the Democrats stepped in and took over the job. If you listen closely to the Democratic leaders now, they are saying basically the same thing. They are willing to continue the Republican agenda in exchange for changing the signs on their doors from Minority Leader to Majority Leader. But they are really making it clear that part of the deal will be no investigations or charges for the Republicans. And really very little change in Iraq. And they seem to be largely supportive of a war in Iran. Vote Democrat if you don't really want change. Its a mistake to try to compare American fascism with German fascism by arguing specifics. Yes, German fascism was based on the idea of a master race. But that doesn’t mean that American fascism has to be based on the same exact idea. American fascism can take its own course, but still be just as nasty all the same.

What’s to be gained by following the Democrats at this time. They refuse to provide any real alternative or opposition to the Republicans. In fact, they seem to be positioning themselves the same as in 1992. In 1992, the American people had abandoned the idea of continuing to support the Republicans. Bush I was running below 40% in the polls, and it was clear he could not be re-elected. So the Democrats stepped in to continue the Republican platform until such a time that the Republicans had regained credibility and could be returned to office.

Look at the Clinton years … you’ve got foreign wars and bombings. Not on the scale of Bush, but still a lot of people were being killed and tortured by death squads and American bombs. You’ve got Welfare Reform dismantling part of the New Deal. You’ve got the WTO and NAFTA and the beginnings of the out-sourcing of America’s jobs overseas. Basically, you’ve got an agenda that is awfully pro-corporate republican. Its just that the Republicans couldn’t have passed it in the 90’s so the Democrats stepped in and took over the job.

If you listen closely to the Democratic leaders now, they are saying basically the same thing. They are willing to continue the Republican agenda in exchange for changing the signs on their doors from Minority Leader to Majority Leader. But they are really making it clear that part of the deal will be no investigations or charges for the Republicans. And really very little change in Iraq. And they seem to be largely supportive of a war in Iran.

Vote Democrat if you don’t really want change.

]]> By: COMtns http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/05/13/hayden-and-the-democratic-party/#comment-15767 COMtns Sat, 03 Jun 2006 00:27:45 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/05/13/hayden-and-the-democratic-party/#comment-15767 Regarding the Democrats, we can look and see and watch what they do and don't do. We can see what they are willing to fight for, and for what they are not willing to fight. Its up to us to create an alternative if we find that lackiing. What we can't do is sit around and wait for an alternative to magically appear. Regarding the Democrats, we can look and see and watch what they do and don’t do. We can see what they are willing to fight for, and for what they are not willing to fight.

Its up to us to create an alternative if we find that lackiing. What we can’t do is sit around and wait for an alternative to magically appear.

]]> By: Mike D. http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/05/13/hayden-and-the-democratic-party/#comment-14743 Mike D. Sun, 21 May 2006 01:00:44 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/05/13/hayden-and-the-democratic-party/#comment-14743 The extent of monitoring wasnt a suprise to me. As an old sci buff and technician it wasnt hard to imagine the possibilites with the internet and computerized phone switches. The question is what are they really after? Experts have commented that this is no way to catch terrorists, are they after political intell? commercial? The idea that they are trying to catch people who talk to reporters is plausible. I must agree with Stan, the Deomocrats are not going to do jack. And I agree that they are going to flop in the midyear elections. The question is how do we start a national party that works for us and not the rich corporate interests. The extent of monitoring wasnt a suprise to me. As an old sci buff and technician it wasnt hard to imagine the
possibilites with the internet and computerized phone switches. The question is what are they really after?

Experts have commented that this is no way to catch terrorists, are they after political intell? commercial?
The idea that they are trying to catch people who talk to reporters is plausible.

I must agree with Stan, the Deomocrats are not going to
do jack. And I agree that they are going to flop in the midyear elections. The question is how do we start a national party that works for us and not the rich corporate interests.

]]> By: Jim Withey http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/05/13/hayden-and-the-democratic-party/#comment-14445 Jim Withey Wed, 17 May 2006 18:24:31 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/05/13/hayden-and-the-democratic-party/#comment-14445 Regarding the Democrats, we don't know if they're headed for the dust bin of history. We just don't know. Let's hope not until an alternative is ready. Our compass can't tell us that. Regarding the Democrats, we don’t know if they’re headed for the dust bin of history. We just don’t know. Let’s hope not until an alternative is ready. Our compass can’t tell us that.

]]> By: StopHayden http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/05/13/hayden-and-the-democratic-party/#comment-14438 StopHayden Wed, 17 May 2006 16:56:55 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/05/13/hayden-and-the-democratic-party/#comment-14438 Hi, couldn't agree more with your comments on Hayden. posted a comment on huffpo about it and it was deleted. wondering why? You suggested your readers call congress, but if they go to http://www.stophayden.org they can send a one click message to all thier reps. We've got to stop hayden. HuffPo seems to be intent on blocking links to stophayden.org, when it's clearly something readers want to know about - maybe you can help get the word out about this grassroots campaign? Thanks! Hi, couldn’t agree more with your comments on Hayden. posted a comment on huffpo about it and it was deleted. wondering why?

You suggested your readers call congress, but if they go to http://www.stophayden.org they can send a one click message to all thier reps.

We’ve got to stop hayden. HuffPo seems to be intent on blocking links to stophayden.org, when it’s clearly something readers want to know about - maybe you can help get the word out about this grassroots campaign?

Thanks!

]]> By: R.S. Morris http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/05/13/hayden-and-the-democratic-party/#comment-14428 R.S. Morris Wed, 17 May 2006 14:33:43 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/05/13/hayden-and-the-democratic-party/#comment-14428 "I think if our communications are to be exposed to them, they should show EVERY single communication to us." Funny that you should mention that: our esteemed Wyoming legislature just passed a bill making all communications between legislators and "others" (read: lobbyists) confidential. Oh yeah, unless the legislator signs a waiver, then it's ok. The governor vetoed it (an act I appreciated greatly from a normally hardline conservative "Democrat") but the legislature overrode his veto easily. "Checks and balances?" Yeah...right. “I think if our communications are to be exposed to them, they should show EVERY single communication to us.”

Funny that you should mention that: our esteemed Wyoming legislature just passed a bill making all communications between legislators and “others” (read: lobbyists) confidential. Oh yeah, unless the legislator signs a waiver, then it’s ok. The governor vetoed it (an act I appreciated greatly from a normally hardline conservative “Democrat”) but the legislature overrode his veto easily.

“Checks and balances?” Yeah…right.

]]> By: blubonnet http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/05/13/hayden-and-the-democratic-party/#comment-14409 blubonnet Wed, 17 May 2006 06:46:44 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/05/13/hayden-and-the-democratic-party/#comment-14409 I think if our communications are to be exposed to them, they should show EVERY single communication to us.That was Rhandi Rhodes idea (Air America radio) I think we should be able to watch him on a screen in the Whitehouse and EVERY where they go, just like that movie with Jim Carey where they had a TV show of his life for all to see, but he never knew it.I wish I could remember the title of it. Those cons are so slinking, sly, and slimy, we should NEVER let them out of our site. (But they are one of the most secret administrations in US history) They just ought not be there. Period. Legality is a thing of the past. It all started with the 2000 s...election. No legal considerations from there on out. We who are paying the salaries are just fat out of luck. We pay them to destroy the country and it's laws? All the talk of polls, I am thinking that the military industrial complex's vast ownerships of most all of the MSM, forever skewing our perceptions, will just buy up some polling companies and tout them as the best and "most reliable" through their their MSM, and can make it appear a "close race" for the next actual elections. Therefore still able to swindle it again. I don't know what we are going to do. We can't just not vote. A vote for the worst party results by just not voting. Repugnant party wins again. Of course they all suck. You'd think that just getting people to come along and reject the right wing insanity would give us a chance, but then, how do you tell them what those of us that have looked more extensively know, that they are being CONTROLLED by MSM, by the MIC, and that they are more evil than most have the capacity to imagine since the MIC (military industrial complex) and their many paid liars make their way into their livingrooms? I think if our communications are to be exposed to them, they should show EVERY single communication to us.That was Rhandi Rhodes idea (Air America radio)

I think we should be able to watch him on a screen in the Whitehouse and EVERY where they go, just like that movie with Jim Carey where they had a TV show of his life for all to see, but he never knew it.I wish I could remember the title of it.

Those cons are so slinking, sly, and slimy, we should NEVER let them out of our site. (But they are one of the most secret administrations in US history)

They just ought not be there. Period. Legality is a thing of the past. It all started with the 2000 s…election. No legal considerations from there on out. We who are paying the salaries are just fat out of luck. We pay them to destroy the country and it’s laws?

All the talk of polls, I am thinking that the military industrial complex’s vast ownerships of most all of the MSM, forever skewing our perceptions, will just buy up some polling companies and tout them as the best and “most reliable” through their their MSM, and can make it appear a “close race” for the next actual elections. Therefore still able to swindle it again.

I don’t know what we are going to do. We can’t just not vote. A vote for the worst party results by just not voting. Repugnant party wins again. Of course they all suck. You’d think that just getting people to come along and reject the right wing insanity would give us a chance, but then, how do you tell them what those of us that have looked more extensively know, that they are being CONTROLLED by MSM, by the MIC, and that they are more evil than most have the capacity to imagine since the MIC (military industrial complex) and their many paid liars make their way into their livingrooms?

]]> By: Timothy R.Anderson http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/05/13/hayden-and-the-democratic-party/#comment-14367 Timothy R.Anderson Tue, 16 May 2006 19:59:47 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/05/13/hayden-and-the-democratic-party/#comment-14367 It may not last long but it is , for now, happening. The "bloggers" at Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans Of America " have finally put together the financial section that I recommend. Please visit their website www.iava.org and please click on " Scoring " in the I.A.V.A. blog section. My apologies for being off-topic. There is a good reason why I am doing this. Timothy R. Anderson It may not last long but it is , for now, happening.
The “bloggers” at Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans Of America ” have finally put together the financial section that I recommend. Please visit their website http://www.iava.org and please click on ” Scoring
” in the I.A.V.A. blog section.

My apologies for being off-topic. There is a good
reason why I am doing this. Timothy R. Anderson

]]> By: Jim Withey http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/05/13/hayden-and-the-democratic-party/#comment-14344 Jim Withey Tue, 16 May 2006 10:39:28 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/05/13/hayden-and-the-democratic-party/#comment-14344 I'd like to reiterate my previous point about the Democrats. I would not say that the Democratic Party is one of progressive values, yet I am reasonably sure I'll vote for at least some of them this fall. For those people who aren't afraid to cast a vote (they can't know who you're voting for, can they?), I suggest that voting Democratic in general (there may be exceptions) is a sensible rearguard activity. It's one thing to criticize the Democrats and other politicians, but that doesn't mean they won't offer significant resistance to the obviously dangerous and atrocious Republicans. They can whether by intention or not buy time for the populace to resist and hopefully reverse the right-wing mowement of society. Even if you're inclined to start a new party, you can still take the small amount of time to vote for the best candidates available while you do so. People I think, particularly in this country, have a tendency to think in terms of "if not A then B". I'll admit to this sort of error myself, in getting sucked in to a way of thinking or a group because it stands in opposition to some other way of thinking or group you have come to see negatively. Two of the causes I can find of this problem are naivete and also not taking the time to think things through. It happens to many of us to some degree, maybe all of us to some degree. Regarding naivete, I offer a statemment from Gore Vidal, who at least has contributed some important ideas and information to the debate. (In one of his books of essays, I seem to remember, there is a passage that has someone calling his work "cheap patrician rant". to which he wrote something to the effect that if he's a patrician then he's ranting at great cost. Rather interesting, No?). The statement is I believe from a speech at the National Press Club many years ago. It was given I believe as a reason for having history being the backbone of any education system. It was I believe, something to the effect of trying to adjust to society without knowing what the society is about, in relation to lack of historical knowledge. Even though it might have been said by a patrician, it's a worthy statement. I guess it seems less likely people would make mistakes of naivete if they had a good historical education. I'm not against naive prople, as I have been naive myself many times. It's just that understanding the world to hopefully make it better for yourself and others is made more difficult by being naive. You get taken advantage of too easily. There are many pathways to trod in life, each with risks and rewards, but having a good understanding of history is in my opinion important and relevant. I hope I never forget that. I’d like to reiterate my previous point about the Democrats.
I would not say that the Democratic Party is one of progressive values, yet I am reasonably sure I’ll vote for at least some of them this fall. For those people who aren’t afraid to cast a vote (they can’t know who you’re voting for, can they?), I suggest that voting Democratic in general (there may be exceptions) is a sensible rearguard activity.
It’s one thing to criticize the Democrats and other politicians, but that doesn’t mean they won’t offer significant resistance to the obviously dangerous and atrocious Republicans. They can whether by intention or not buy time for the populace to resist and hopefully reverse the right-wing mowement of society. Even if you’re inclined to start a new party, you can still take the small amount of time to vote for the best candidates available while you do so.
People I think, particularly in this country, have a tendency to think in terms of “if not A then B”. I’ll admit to this sort of error myself, in getting sucked in to a way of thinking or a group because it stands in opposition to some other way of thinking or group you have come to see negatively. Two of the causes I can find of this problem are naivete and also not taking the time to think things through. It happens to many of us to some degree, maybe all of us to some degree.
Regarding naivete, I offer a statemment from Gore Vidal, who at least has contributed some important ideas and information to the debate. (In one of his books of essays, I seem to remember, there is a passage that has someone calling his work “cheap patrician rant”. to which he wrote something to the effect that if he’s a patrician then he’s ranting at great cost. Rather interesting, No?).
The statement is I believe from a speech at the National Press Club many years ago. It was given I believe as a reason for having history being the backbone of any education system. It was I believe, something to the effect of trying to adjust to society without knowing what the society is about, in relation to lack of historical knowledge. Even though it might have been said by a patrician, it’s a worthy statement.
I guess it seems less likely people would make mistakes of naivete if they had a good historical education. I’m not against naive prople, as I have been naive myself many times. It’s just that understanding the world to hopefully make it better for yourself and others is made more difficult by being naive. You get taken advantage of too easily.
There are many pathways to trod in life, each with risks and rewards, but having a good understanding of history is in my opinion important and relevant. I hope I never forget that.

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