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	<title>Comments on: Saudi Arabia &amp; Iran / Mad capitalism</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/11/28/saudi-arabia-iran/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/11/28/saudi-arabia-iran/</link>
	<description>Making the Connections</description>
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		<title>By: Timothy R. Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/11/28/saudi-arabia-iran/#comment-43784</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy R. Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Nov 2006 20:04:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feralscholar.org/blog/?p=422#comment-43784</guid>
		<description>Yes, evil deeds are  prevented.  Not very often though   .

   Uh, the nineteen  terrorister&#039;s  of  the  9-11-01  terrorist  attacks  included  fifteen  SAUDI  ARABIANS  among  them .  Uh,  that  kinda   indicates
  that  the  regular  folks  of  SAUDI  ARABIA  are  very, very, very ,  very,  very  angry   at   American citizens, and  anyone  on  American  soil .  Uh,  why&#039;s  folks  in  Washington  D. C.   so    slow
   to  grasp  that   series  of   facts  ?

  Why  doesn&#039;t  the  American  public  tell  the  folks  in   Washington  D.C.  to  WAKE   UP  ?

  War&#039;s  a  racket,  Stan .  Marx  is  NOT  likely to  pilot  two  planes  (  or  even  one )  into  tall  buildings  .

  Please , everyone,  consider  what  you  are  keeping  in  place  .   

  Timothy R. Anderson,   11 / 30 / 06</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, evil deeds are  prevented.  Not very often though   .</p>
<p>   Uh, the nineteen  terrorister&#8217;s  of  the  9-11-01  terrorist  attacks  included  fifteen  SAUDI  ARABIANS  among  them .  Uh,  that  kinda   indicates<br />
  that  the  regular  folks  of  SAUDI  ARABIA  are  very, very, very ,  very,  very  angry   at   American citizens, and  anyone  on  American  soil .  Uh,  why&#8217;s  folks  in  Washington  D. C.   so    slow<br />
   to  grasp  that   series  of   facts  ?</p>
<p>  Why  doesn&#8217;t  the  American  public  tell  the  folks  in   Washington  D.C.  to  WAKE   UP  ?</p>
<p>  War&#8217;s  a  racket,  Stan .  Marx  is  NOT  likely to  pilot  two  planes  (  or  even  one )  into  tall  buildings  .</p>
<p>  Please , everyone,  consider  what  you  are  keeping  in  place  .   </p>
<p>  Timothy R. Anderson,   11 / 30 / 06</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/11/28/saudi-arabia-iran/#comment-43778</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Nov 2006 19:53:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feralscholar.org/blog/?p=422#comment-43778</guid>
		<description>Aside from Century of War, which I also recommend, the only other Kolko book I&#039;ve read in full is The Triumph of Conservatism, a very interesting look at the so-called &quot;Progressive Era&quot;.  Definitely worth looking for (I think it&#039;s out of print).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aside from Century of War, which I also recommend, the only other Kolko book I&#8217;ve read in full is The Triumph of Conservatism, a very interesting look at the so-called &#8220;Progressive Era&#8221;.  Definitely worth looking for (I think it&#8217;s out of print).</p>
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		<title>By: Stan</title>
		<link>http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/11/28/saudi-arabia-iran/#comment-43600</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Nov 2006 02:56:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feralscholar.org/blog/?p=422#comment-43600</guid>
		<description>Can&#039;t say I&#039;ve read Kolko on this.  But I have noted more than once myself when explaining the miltiary to the uninitiated, the idealized military of popular culture conceals the true essence of a modern conventional miitary organization:  bureaucracy.

The answer to the last question is, imo, yes.

The conventional military is also predicated on exteme standardization, and officer supervisors often have outrageously arbitrary power.  Oddly enough, enlisted people, if they know the bureaucratic heiroglyphics, can carve out a less arbitrary space than officers (or even less arbitrary than, say, IBM).  But then they depend on NCOs to get the practical day to day stuff done, so they have to give us a lot more latitude (and of course hang us when things go wrong).

I may start reading some Kolko, aside from his short pieces.

One more oughta on the list.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can&#8217;t say I&#8217;ve read Kolko on this.  But I have noted more than once myself when explaining the miltiary to the uninitiated, the idealized military of popular culture conceals the true essence of a modern conventional miitary organization:  bureaucracy.</p>
<p>The answer to the last question is, imo, yes.</p>
<p>The conventional military is also predicated on exteme standardization, and officer supervisors often have outrageously arbitrary power.  Oddly enough, enlisted people, if they know the bureaucratic heiroglyphics, can carve out a less arbitrary space than officers (or even less arbitrary than, say, IBM).  But then they depend on NCOs to get the practical day to day stuff done, so they have to give us a lot more latitude (and of course hang us when things go wrong).</p>
<p>I may start reading some Kolko, aside from his short pieces.</p>
<p>One more oughta on the list.</p>
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		<title>By: Brandon</title>
		<link>http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/11/28/saudi-arabia-iran/#comment-43589</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Nov 2006 01:37:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feralscholar.org/blog/?p=422#comment-43589</guid>
		<description>Legume, 

Kolko is quite critical of the history of the 20th  Left and particularly socialist parties becaue of their tradional subserivence to Moscow. He saw the Soviet Union as an essentially conservative force throughout the cold war, working to restrain local CPs. But he is equally critical of those local CPs for adhering to the Soviet line. 

In the post cold war period I think he is &#039;cranky&#039; about a generalized failure of imagination on the left. 

I think this is part of a broader critique of the traditional rigidity of M-L. But if you think he is critical of the left, look at what he says about the right, and particulary war planners. 

I haven&#039;t (yet) read his After Socialism where he presents his most recent and most detailed critique of the left, but his Century of War (1994), is pretty comprehensive in its critique of both right and left.      

Roots of American Foriegn Poicy (1969) is about $1.65 on half.com. 35 yrs later and it is still good reading.

Stan, I am curious if you agree with his assessment of the military as being perhaps the most conformist element of the state which is characterized by such a high degree of conformism. Is he arguing for a more autonomous military? Or is he just saying that if military leaders had more of spine, they&#039;d be willing to tell political leaders that they are full of shit, doing everyone a big favor?

this is a very different argument than M. Hogan &quot;A Cross of Iron&quot; and other analyses of the military industrial complex (even C.W. Mills). 

Is a military leadership with a spine a virutal impossibility given structure of the modern state, in which war planning is the purview of the McNamaras and rumsfelds? Do only the tommy Frankses, that is those who will confirm the delusions of the powerful, get anywhere near the top?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Legume, </p>
<p>Kolko is quite critical of the history of the 20th  Left and particularly socialist parties becaue of their tradional subserivence to Moscow. He saw the Soviet Union as an essentially conservative force throughout the cold war, working to restrain local CPs. But he is equally critical of those local CPs for adhering to the Soviet line. </p>
<p>In the post cold war period I think he is &#8216;cranky&#8217; about a generalized failure of imagination on the left. </p>
<p>I think this is part of a broader critique of the traditional rigidity of M-L. But if you think he is critical of the left, look at what he says about the right, and particulary war planners. </p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t (yet) read his After Socialism where he presents his most recent and most detailed critique of the left, but his Century of War (1994), is pretty comprehensive in its critique of both right and left.      </p>
<p>Roots of American Foriegn Poicy (1969) is about $1.65 on half.com. 35 yrs later and it is still good reading.</p>
<p>Stan, I am curious if you agree with his assessment of the military as being perhaps the most conformist element of the state which is characterized by such a high degree of conformism. Is he arguing for a more autonomous military? Or is he just saying that if military leaders had more of spine, they&#8217;d be willing to tell political leaders that they are full of shit, doing everyone a big favor?</p>
<p>this is a very different argument than M. Hogan &#8220;A Cross of Iron&#8221; and other analyses of the military industrial complex (even C.W. Mills). </p>
<p>Is a military leadership with a spine a virutal impossibility given structure of the modern state, in which war planning is the purview of the McNamaras and rumsfelds? Do only the tommy Frankses, that is those who will confirm the delusions of the powerful, get anywhere near the top?</p>
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		<title>By: Stan</title>
		<link>http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/11/28/saudi-arabia-iran/#comment-43578</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Nov 2006 00:08:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feralscholar.org/blog/?p=422#comment-43578</guid>
		<description>Kolko is being provocative.  My impresson, reading the article, is that he uses the term &quot;socialism&quot; to stand in for the 20th Century&#039;s state socialism, which I myself maintain is an instantiation firmly within the capitalist world system... which Kolko says more than matches the failures of Marxism-Leninism (the most influential variant of state socialism).

I&#039;m going to be opening a thread on this soon, and I hope you&#039;ll be there.  My own critique of M-L is shaped signficantly by ecological issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kolko is being provocative.  My impresson, reading the article, is that he uses the term &#8220;socialism&#8221; to stand in for the 20th Century&#8217;s state socialism, which I myself maintain is an instantiation firmly within the capitalist world system&#8230; which Kolko says more than matches the failures of Marxism-Leninism (the most influential variant of state socialism).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m going to be opening a thread on this soon, and I hope you&#8217;ll be there.  My own critique of M-L is shaped signficantly by ecological issues.</p>
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		<title>By: Legume Sam</title>
		<link>http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/11/28/saudi-arabia-iran/#comment-43573</link>
		<dc:creator>Legume Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Nov 2006 21:30:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feralscholar.org/blog/?p=422#comment-43573</guid>
		<description>I have no money right now, so I can&#039;t afford Kolko&#039;s book.  So I&#039;m going to throw this out -- why does Kolko say stuff like &quot;Socialism ceased being a real option long ago&quot;?  I was of the opinion that the problem was that socialism may &lt;i&gt;not yet&lt;/i&gt; be an option.  Is Kolko a complete pessimist?  Anyone?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no money right now, so I can&#8217;t afford Kolko&#8217;s book.  So I&#8217;m going to throw this out &#8212; why does Kolko say stuff like &#8220;Socialism ceased being a real option long ago&#8221;?  I was of the opinion that the problem was that socialism may <i>not yet</i> be an option.  Is Kolko a complete pessimist?  Anyone?</p>
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		<title>By: howard</title>
		<link>http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/11/28/saudi-arabia-iran/#comment-43512</link>
		<dc:creator>howard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:10:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feralscholar.org/blog/?p=422#comment-43512</guid>
		<description>Also of interest in this regard is Pepe Escobar&#039;s piece of 11/29 in Asia Times, &quot;Bury My Heart in the Green Zone&quot; about the power jockeying in Iraq itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also of interest in this regard is Pepe Escobar&#8217;s piece of 11/29 in Asia Times, &#8220;Bury My Heart in the Green Zone&#8221; about the power jockeying in Iraq itself.</p>
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