Comments on: Containment and Diplomacy http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/12/03/containment-and-diplomacy/ Making the Connections Fri, 10 Sep 2010 19:31:29 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: required http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/12/03/containment-and-diplomacy/#comment-45864 required Thu, 14 Dec 2006 00:16:10 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/12/03/containment-and-diplomacy/#comment-45864 I just uploaded "Neo-prude" with the following definition to UrbanDictionary.com. "A person who is against displays of human bodies which don't conform to the ideal set forth by the Pornography industry. Essentially the Neo-prude takes the pre-existing repressive prudish ideology of fundamentalist religion, which condemns displays of human bodies (especially in sexual contexts) as immoral, and alters it slightly to allow only displays which are idealized by the pornography industry. The vast majority of human bodies, which don't conform to this ideal, are met with the same flood of guilt tripping and disgust that traditional prudes visit upon all of humanity. Neo-prudes are prone to justifying their prudishness by pointing to the tiny minority of people whom they are not prudish towards." We need our own language to fight back against the patriachy, God knows they have there's. UrbanDictionry allows anyone to vote "yes" or "no" to the validity of definitions. A bunch of yes votes would make me happy. I just uploaded “Neo-prude” with the following definition to UrbanDictionary.com.

“A person who is against displays of human bodies which don’t conform to the ideal set forth by the Pornography industry. Essentially the Neo-prude takes the pre-existing repressive prudish ideology of fundamentalist religion, which condemns displays of human bodies (especially in sexual contexts) as immoral, and alters it slightly to allow only displays which are idealized by the pornography industry. The vast majority of human bodies, which don’t conform to this ideal, are met with the same flood of guilt tripping and disgust that traditional prudes visit upon all of humanity. Neo-prudes are prone to justifying their prudishness by pointing to the tiny minority of people whom they are not prudish towards.”

We need our own language to fight back against the patriachy, God knows they have there’s. UrbanDictionry allows anyone to vote “yes” or “no” to the validity of definitions. A bunch of yes votes would make me happy.

]]> By: Tatiana http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/12/03/containment-and-diplomacy/#comment-45686 Tatiana Tue, 12 Dec 2006 17:58:24 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/12/03/containment-and-diplomacy/#comment-45686 Thank you for the article, it is always good to hear something positive about the country I grew up in and can never, unfortunately, return to. (Remember Sting’s condescending: I hope that Russians love their children too?...) One can always draw good conclusions from a different culture, especially if its approach to politics is dearer. It is true though that Soviets, just like anybody else in the world, overlooked child abuse and improper and unkind bringing up. The difference is that here in the United States a child is raised, or more appropriate to say, bred for the purpose of becoming a successful soldier for capitalism. I always have a strange feeling watching a 16 or 18-year-old being kicked out of a house by loving parents for his/her own good, that is quite understandable considering that a child will not be able to learn the harsh reality of a bloody battle for the next career opportunity unless he or she learns to fight their way through on their own. I always found it appalling that a grandmother would take money to baby-sit her grandkids or a real estate agent would brag about profiting on selling a house to his own son. Also there are serious psychological implications of such detachments that can lead even to such extremities as (given of course other factors, such as low quality of education as well as very well developed sex culture), believe it or not, sexual abuse that is happening in this country more than in any other civilized society. Thank you for the article, it is always good to hear something positive about the country I grew up in and can never, unfortunately, return to. (Remember Sting’s condescending: I hope that Russians love their children too?…)
One can always draw good conclusions from a different culture, especially if its approach to politics is dearer. It is true though that Soviets, just like anybody else in the world, overlooked child abuse and improper and unkind bringing up. The difference is that here in the United States a child is raised, or more appropriate to say, bred for the purpose of becoming a successful soldier for capitalism.
I always have a strange feeling watching a 16 or 18-year-old being kicked out of a house by loving parents for his/her own good, that is quite understandable considering that a child will not be able to learn the harsh reality of a bloody battle for the next career opportunity unless he or she learns to fight their way through on their own. I always found it appalling that a grandmother would take money to baby-sit her grandkids or a real estate agent would brag about profiting on selling a house to his own son. Also there are serious psychological implications of such detachments that can lead even to such extremities as (given of course other factors, such as low quality of education as well as very well developed sex culture), believe it or not, sexual abuse that is happening in this country more than in any other civilized society.

]]> By: Jonny http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/12/03/containment-and-diplomacy/#comment-45619 Jonny Tue, 12 Dec 2006 04:45:19 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/12/03/containment-and-diplomacy/#comment-45619 Hi Peggy, good topic.You have me trying to recall my pre-politicization reactions to breast-feeding. Although smalltown pre-pol Jonny was frequently exposed to breast-feeding mothers from early on, I think my mother chose to use a pump in the bathroom to fill bottles for my lil' sis when we were in out in public places. I have never found public breast-feeding to be a sexual event, and imho it's generally safe to do(never seen nor heard of danger resulting from any men's reaction to that. Hi Peggy, good topic.You have me trying to recall my pre-politicization reactions to breast-feeding. Although smalltown pre-pol Jonny was frequently exposed to breast-feeding mothers from early on, I think my mother chose to use a pump in the bathroom to fill bottles for my lil’ sis when we were in out in public places. I have never found public breast-feeding to be a sexual event, and imho it’s generally safe to do(never seen nor heard of danger resulting from any men’s reaction to that.

]]> By: Randy Morris http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/12/03/containment-and-diplomacy/#comment-44991 Randy Morris Sat, 09 Dec 2006 01:24:14 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/12/03/containment-and-diplomacy/#comment-44991 It's yours, Peggy! Sloganeer away! :) Randy It’s yours, Peggy! Sloganeer away!

:)

Randy

]]> By: peggy http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/12/03/containment-and-diplomacy/#comment-44972 peggy Fri, 08 Dec 2006 21:45:23 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/12/03/containment-and-diplomacy/#comment-44972 "Nurse in public and carry a gun." That would make a great slogan! I think I'll adopt it for my movement, when I start one. “Nurse in public and carry a gun.”

That would make a great slogan! I think I’ll adopt it for my movement, when I start one.

]]> By: Marilyn Farhat http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/12/03/containment-and-diplomacy/#comment-44970 Marilyn Farhat Fri, 08 Dec 2006 21:16:21 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/12/03/containment-and-diplomacy/#comment-44970 I thought I would share this photograph (with the Moderators' permission, if appropriate) to show what I meant when I said people, including the men, in the Middle East do not find it "immoral" or "offensive," neither is it "illegal" to breast feed in public. It is all a matter of what is acceptable in that culture. Look at the way the breasts are exposed and contrast with the way she is dressed (contradictory?). http://breastfeedingart.net/1920/Enlarge/1920%20%20Beyrut%20NUDE%20Lady%20BREAST%20FEEDING%20Child%20Lebanon.html When I was a child, my relatives an I would go swimming in the south of the country. Women of that part of the country did not own "swim suits." Their swimming attire consisted of one piece of clothing, baggy cotton pantaloons and a head scarf (let's not forget the head scarf, the crown of Middle Eastern chaste womanhood). They were completely exposed from the waist up and, if a strange man happened to walk by, he had one choice really, look the other way. The United States is one of the most prudish of cultures I have come across (despite the blatant sexual imagery). There is a lot of promiscuity and hard core sex, but when it comes to really being comfortable with sexuality and the body, we still have a long way to go. It remains a matter of "quantity" not "quality" to put it generally. But, I am hopeful that we can change, maybe, someday :) I thought I would share this photograph (with the Moderators’ permission, if appropriate) to show what I meant when I said people, including the men, in the Middle East do not find it “immoral” or “offensive,” neither is it “illegal” to breast feed in public. It is all a matter of what is acceptable in that culture. Look at the way the breasts are exposed and contrast with the way she is dressed (contradictory?).

http://breastfeedingart.net/1920/Enlarge/1920%20%20Beyrut%20NUDE%20Lady%20BREAST%20FEEDING%20Child%20Lebanon.html

When I was a child, my relatives an I would go swimming in the south of the country. Women of that part of the country did not own “swim suits.” Their swimming attire consisted of one piece of clothing, baggy cotton pantaloons and a head scarf (let’s not forget the head scarf, the crown of Middle Eastern chaste womanhood). They were completely exposed from the waist up and, if a strange man happened to walk by, he had one choice really, look the other way.

The United States is one of the most prudish of cultures I have come across (despite the blatant sexual imagery). There is a lot of promiscuity and hard core sex, but when it comes to really being comfortable with sexuality and the body, we still have a long way to go. It remains a matter of “quantity” not “quality” to put it generally. But, I am hopeful that we can change, maybe, someday :)

]]> By: Heide http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/12/03/containment-and-diplomacy/#comment-44938 Heide Fri, 08 Dec 2006 15:27:46 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/12/03/containment-and-diplomacy/#comment-44938 I grew up seeing women nurse in public: on the bus or train, in church, in the library, in restaurants, on a park bench. Nobody thought much about it because it was so pervasive. The men did joke about it sometimes, I remember; but the joking was good-natured and it was clear that a woman's right to nurse her infant wherever and whenever necessary was respected. If there were people who had a problem with a nursing woman, they were the ones expected to leave, not the woman. I grew up seeing women nurse in public: on the bus or train, in church, in the library, in restaurants, on a park bench. Nobody thought much about it because it was so pervasive. The men did joke about it sometimes, I remember; but the joking was good-natured and it was clear that a woman’s right to nurse her infant wherever and whenever necessary was respected. If there were people who had a problem with a nursing woman, they were the ones expected to leave, not the woman.

]]> By: Randy Morris http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/12/03/containment-and-diplomacy/#comment-44885 Randy Morris Fri, 08 Dec 2006 07:58:26 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/12/03/containment-and-diplomacy/#comment-44885 Seeing a woman nursing a baby is actually far from a sexual turn-on...for me anyway. I imagine it is downright uncomfortable for most men, and that's the reason they foist off the "its a sexual thing" to seem like they're just trying to look out for the woman's best interest. My opinion on the right thing to do? Nurse in public. If you are concerned about potential sexual aggression---nurse in public and carry a gun. If I'm around, I'll back you up on your right to do both (at least if you live in the U.S.). Down with Formula Oppression! Long live the Real Deal! Whenever, wherever! :) Randy (A proud daddy of two children whose lips---and livers---never touched formula) Seeing a woman nursing a baby is actually far from a sexual turn-on…for me anyway. I imagine it is downright uncomfortable for most men, and that’s the reason they foist off the “its a sexual thing” to seem like they’re just trying to look out for the woman’s best interest.

My opinion on the right thing to do? Nurse in public.
If you are concerned about potential sexual aggression—nurse in public and carry a gun.

If I’m around, I’ll back you up on your right to do both (at least if you live in the U.S.).

Down with Formula Oppression! Long live the Real Deal!
Whenever, wherever!

:)

Randy
(A proud daddy of two children whose lips—and livers—never touched formula)

]]> By: peggy http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/12/03/containment-and-diplomacy/#comment-44869 peggy Fri, 08 Dec 2006 05:47:48 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/12/03/containment-and-diplomacy/#comment-44869 When my second baby was a baby, I was an impecunious assistant lecturer at a small liberal arts college in rural New York State. I took my baby with me to work and nursed him while I was teaching class. To me it was no big deal, just a matter of practicality, and the students appeared to accept the presence of my baby, and my nursing him as I lectured, in the same spirit. But my doing this caused a bit of a stir, pro and con, among some faculty members. One young female faculty member invited me to lecture at her class, with baby welcome. Evidently it was not what I had to say during the lecture, but the fact that I nursed my baby while lecturing, that interested her and the students. And a friend of mine, an elderly art professor, who had spent his Beatnik days in Greenwich Village, expressed his irritation with me for nursing my baby in class, because he considered it an act of sexual display. I assured him that it was not what he thought, and that neither the male nor the female students took it that way. But he retorted that, while the students might appear calm, behind my back the boys among them would be thinking about me sexually, stripping me naked in their minds, and I was only provoking them by nursing my baby in their presence. In retrospect I think it was only this old art professor who was stripping me in his mind, but at the time his words caused me to wonder if maybe I was doing something wrong. Also, I nursed my first baby when I was in India, and one of the places I nursed him in was on the bus, because we had to take long bus rides from one place to another, and it was necessary for me to feed my baby, and anyway this was India, for heavens sakes. But a woman friend of mine, an Indian woman, wife of a professor, mother of six, grandmother of two, who came with me on the bus once, said I should not nurse my baby on the bus because the men would be looking at me. And I said, nobody is looking at me. And she said, they will be looking at you through the corners of their eyes. Does the mere sight of a woman nursing her baby excite men sexually? Maybe, if they are not used to this sight, and/or if they are subject to uncontrollable hormone attacks or something. Should we nursing women protect ourselves from possible male aggression by nursing our babies in private? Or should we nurse our babies in public, to enable men to get used to this sight, and to free other women to nurse their babies in public if they so choose? You already know what I think, but I am interested in learning what other readers, especially men, might think on this topic. Men: be honest. I just want to know. When my second baby was a baby, I was an impecunious assistant lecturer at a small liberal arts college in rural New York State. I took my baby with me to work and nursed him while I was teaching class. To me it was no big deal, just a matter of practicality, and the students appeared to accept the presence of my baby, and my nursing him as I lectured, in the same spirit. But my doing this caused a bit of a stir, pro and con, among some faculty members. One young female faculty member invited me to lecture at her class, with baby welcome. Evidently it was not what I had to say during the lecture, but the fact that I nursed my baby while lecturing, that interested her and the students. And a friend of mine, an elderly art professor, who had spent his Beatnik days in Greenwich Village, expressed his irritation with me for nursing my baby in class, because he considered it an act of sexual display. I assured him that it was not what he thought, and that neither the male nor the female students took it that way. But he retorted that, while the students might appear calm, behind my back the boys among them would be thinking about me sexually, stripping me naked in their minds, and I was only provoking them by nursing my baby in their presence. In retrospect I think it was only this old art professor who was stripping me in his mind, but at the time his words caused me to wonder if maybe I was doing something wrong.

Also, I nursed my first baby when I was in India, and one of the places I nursed him in was on the bus, because we had to take long bus rides from one place to another, and it was necessary for me to feed my baby, and anyway this was India, for heavens sakes. But a woman friend of mine, an Indian woman, wife of a professor, mother of six, grandmother of two, who came with me on the bus once, said I should not nurse my baby on the bus because the men would be looking at me. And I said, nobody is looking at me. And she said, they will be looking at you through the corners of their eyes.

Does the mere sight of a woman nursing her baby excite men sexually? Maybe, if they are not used to this sight, and/or if they are subject to uncontrollable hormone attacks or something.

Should we nursing women protect ourselves from possible male aggression by nursing our babies in private? Or should we nurse our babies in public, to enable men to get used to this sight, and to free other women to nurse their babies in public if they so choose? You already know what I think, but I am interested in learning what other readers, especially men, might think on this topic. Men: be honest. I just want to know.

]]> By: xenia http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/12/03/containment-and-diplomacy/#comment-44835 xenia Thu, 07 Dec 2006 22:37:26 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2006/12/03/containment-and-diplomacy/#comment-44835 I have very little compassion for stars and starlettes in the US, yet I was appalled when some of the racist comments on Janet Jackson's "ugly, middle-aged tit" came out... It made me realize there is an ideal of what "the good breast" is supposed to look like (perky, round, but not elongated, with only one alternative, namely the barely-breasted, hip girl-child who is androgynous and tough, meaning in practice we all have to "choose" to look either like Pam Anderson or like Kate Moss). Meaning here: even in a moment when a breast is not explicitly sexual, it had better be pleasing to the eye. A feeding breast (or a hanging, or a dried-out old breast) does not confirm to such plasticky, lifeless ideals, and thus it provokes aesthetic horror from those socialized in such a way to always expect standardization. Their solution: cut them all up and make them pay for their ugliness. I have very little compassion for stars and starlettes in the US, yet I was appalled when some of the racist comments on Janet Jackson’s “ugly, middle-aged tit” came out…

It made me realize there is an ideal of what “the good breast” is supposed to look like (perky, round, but not elongated, with only one alternative, namely the barely-breasted, hip girl-child who is androgynous and tough, meaning in practice we all have to “choose” to look either like Pam Anderson or like Kate Moss).

Meaning here: even in a moment when a breast is not explicitly sexual, it had better be pleasing to the eye. A feeding breast (or a hanging, or a dried-out old breast) does not confirm to such plasticky, lifeless ideals, and thus it provokes aesthetic horror from those socialized in such a way to always expect standardization. Their solution: cut them all up and make them pay for their ugliness.

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