Comments on: “Dictator” humbly accepts narrow electoral defeat http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2007/12/03/dictator-humbly-accepts-narrow-electoral-defeat/ Making the Connections Wed, 08 Feb 2012 20:52:47 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Cleon http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2007/12/03/dictator-humbly-accepts-narrow-electoral-defeat/#comment-117400 Cleon Thu, 06 Dec 2007 15:50:11 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2007/12/03/dictator-humbly-accepts-narrow-electoral-defeat/#comment-117400 It's amusing the way the "dictator" is more respectful of democracy than the guy who wants to "liberate" the world. Bush has never respected the outcome of a vote against him. But then, after years of coddling Pervez Musharraf (a relationship that began *before* 9/11, before the 2000 election, even), and his quick support of the short-lived coup in Venezuela, the fact that Bush isn't very fond of democratic process is hardly a surprise. It’s amusing the way the “dictator” is more respectful of democracy than the guy who wants to “liberate” the world. Bush has never respected the outcome of a vote against him.

But then, after years of coddling Pervez Musharraf (a relationship that began *before* 9/11, before the 2000 election, even), and his quick support of the short-lived coup in Venezuela, the fact that Bush isn’t very fond of democratic process is hardly a surprise.

]]> By: skol http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2007/12/03/dictator-humbly-accepts-narrow-electoral-defeat/#comment-117112 skol Thu, 06 Dec 2007 01:41:03 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2007/12/03/dictator-humbly-accepts-narrow-electoral-defeat/#comment-117112 Does anyone have sources on the food shortages created by the elites by "respectable" sources, or how right-wing forces got the students involved? I'm writing portions of the referendum article on wikipedia, and they (wiki policy and (especially) various editors' agendas) don't allow citations from VenAlysis or CP. It would be an excellent help while the topic remains on the wiki frontpage. I might be barking up the wrong tree here, either in regarding wiki as an asset or assuming that ANY "legitimate" source would ever say such things in print, but getting a fuller view could be invaluable imo (wikipedia, to its credit, does have many enforceable policies on how to present things against the status quo, so long as it's cited from a "proper" (respectable, legitimate, proper, UGH) source). Does anyone have sources on the food shortages created by the elites by “respectable” sources, or how right-wing forces got the students involved? I’m writing portions of the referendum article on wikipedia, and they (wiki policy and (especially) various editors’ agendas) don’t allow citations from VenAlysis or CP. It would be an excellent help while the topic remains on the wiki frontpage. I might be barking up the wrong tree here, either in regarding wiki as an asset or assuming that ANY “legitimate” source would ever say such things in print, but getting a fuller view could be invaluable imo (wikipedia, to its credit, does have many enforceable policies on how to present things against the status quo, so long as it’s cited from a “proper” (respectable, legitimate, proper, UGH) source).

]]> By: Stan http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2007/12/03/dictator-humbly-accepts-narrow-electoral-defeat/#comment-117069 Stan Wed, 05 Dec 2007 23:31:10 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2007/12/03/dictator-humbly-accepts-narrow-electoral-defeat/#comment-117069 Petras' after-action review: http://www.counterpunch.org/petras12052007.html Note the use of food as a wepaon by the V-elite. Dependency rears its head again as our greatest weakness. Petras’ after-action review:

http://www.counterpunch.org/petras12052007.html

Note the use of food as a wepaon by the V-elite.

Dependency rears its head again as our greatest weakness.

]]> By: DeAnander http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2007/12/03/dictator-humbly-accepts-narrow-electoral-defeat/#comment-116487 DeAnander Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:08:34 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2007/12/03/dictator-humbly-accepts-narrow-electoral-defeat/#comment-116487 <a href=http://www.counterpunch.org/tariq12032007.html rel="nofollow">Good analysis by Tariq Ali over at Counterpunch</a> <blockquote>Another error was the insistence on voting for all the proposals en bloc on a take it or leave it basis. It's perfectly possibly that a number of the proposals might have got through if a vote on each had been allowed. This would have compelled the Bolivarians to campaign more effectively at grassroots level through organised discussions and debates (as the French Left did to win the argument and defeat the EU Constitution ). It is always a mistake to underestimate the electorate and Chavez knows this better than most. What is to be done now? The President is in office till 2013 and whatever else Chavez may be the description of 'lame-duck' will never fit him. He is a fighter and he will be thinking of how to strengthen the process. If properly handled the defeat could be a blessing in disguise. It has, after all, punctured the arguments of the Western pundits who were claiming for the last eight years that democracy in Venezuela was dead and authoritarianism had won. Anyone who saw Chavez' speech accepting defeat last night (as I did here in Guadalajara with Mexican friends) will not be in any doubt regarding his commitment to a democratically embedded social process. That much is clear. One of the weaknesses of the movement in Venezuela has been the over-dependence on one person. It is dangerous for the person (one bullet can be enough) and it is unhealthy for the Bolivarian process. There will be a great deal of soul-searching taking place in Caracas, but the key now is an open debate analysing the causes of the setback and a move towards a collective leadership to decide on the next candidate. It's a long time ahead but the discussions should start now. Deepening popular participation and encouraging social inclusion (as envisaged in the defeated constitutional changes) should be done anyway.</blockquote> Good analysis by Tariq Ali over at Counterpunch

Another error was the insistence on voting for all the proposals en bloc on a take it or leave it basis. It’s perfectly possibly that a number of the proposals might have got through if a vote on each had been allowed. This would have compelled the Bolivarians to campaign more effectively at grassroots level through organised discussions and debates (as the French Left did to win the argument and defeat the EU Constitution ). It is always a mistake to underestimate the electorate and Chavez knows this better than most.

What is to be done now? The President is in office till 2013 and whatever else Chavez may be the description of ‘lame-duck’ will never fit him. He is a fighter and he will be thinking of how to strengthen the process. If properly handled the defeat could be a blessing in disguise. It has, after all, punctured the arguments of the Western pundits who were claiming for the last eight years that democracy in Venezuela was dead and authoritarianism had won.

Anyone who saw Chavez’ speech accepting defeat last night (as I did here in Guadalajara with Mexican friends) will not be in any doubt regarding his commitment to a democratically embedded social process. That much is clear. One of the weaknesses of the movement in Venezuela has been the over-dependence on one person. It is dangerous for the person (one bullet can be enough) and it is unhealthy for the Bolivarian process. There will be a great deal of soul-searching taking place in Caracas, but the key now is an open debate analysing the causes of the setback and a move towards a collective leadership to decide on the next candidate. It’s a long time ahead but the discussions should start now. Deepening popular participation and encouraging social inclusion (as envisaged in the defeated constitutional changes) should be done anyway.

]]> By: Charles http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2007/12/03/dictator-humbly-accepts-narrow-electoral-defeat/#comment-116405 Charles Tue, 04 Dec 2007 18:08:49 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2007/12/03/dictator-humbly-accepts-narrow-electoral-defeat/#comment-116405 The one paradoxical victory here is that Chavez and his government have made the dictator narrative from a panicking corporate press a pretty tough sell. ^^^^^ CB: Ah "unintended consequences", chaos, paradox, dialectic. Chavez ( and Castro) are good baseballers. They may know how to be good losers as well as good winners. The one paradoxical victory here is that Chavez and his government have made the dictator narrative from a panicking corporate press a pretty tough sell.

^^^^^
CB: Ah “unintended consequences”, chaos, paradox, dialectic.

Chavez ( and Castro) are good baseballers. They may know how to be good losers as well as good winners.

]]> By: Stan http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2007/12/03/dictator-humbly-accepts-narrow-electoral-defeat/#comment-116234 Stan Tue, 04 Dec 2007 11:05:00 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2007/12/03/dictator-humbly-accepts-narrow-electoral-defeat/#comment-116234 Talking with a friend yesterday who speculated that the whole thing might have been a brilliant set-up. I don't buy it, because the result was too close... but it is a humorous idea. Talking with a friend yesterday who speculated that the whole thing might have been a brilliant set-up. I don’t buy it, because the result was too close… but it is a humorous idea.

]]> By: Jim http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2007/12/03/dictator-humbly-accepts-narrow-electoral-defeat/#comment-116156 Jim Tue, 04 Dec 2007 05:28:05 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2007/12/03/dictator-humbly-accepts-narrow-electoral-defeat/#comment-116156 I tend to agree with Tariq Ali (http://counterpunch.com/tariq12032007.html)that the loss might be a blessing in disguise in that it will disabuse many people of the idea of Chavez being a dictator in the making. I tend to agree with Tariq Ali (http://counterpunch.com/tariq12032007.html)that the loss might be a blessing in disguise in that it will disabuse many people of the idea of Chavez being a dictator in the making.

]]> By: skol http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2007/12/03/dictator-humbly-accepts-narrow-electoral-defeat/#comment-116114 skol Mon, 03 Dec 2007 21:11:31 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2007/12/03/dictator-humbly-accepts-narrow-electoral-defeat/#comment-116114 One of the best places for a wedge is wikipedia. Lots of POV fighting over at <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_constitutional_referendum%2C_2007" rel="nofollow">the article</a> about the referendum. But uughhh... it's hard to get things going in the right direction (not ideologically, but presenting good info; a lot of semantic cudgels swinging around). I'm wondering if it's impossible. One of the best places for a wedge is wikipedia. Lots of POV fighting over at the article about the referendum. But uughhh… it’s hard to get things going in the right direction (not ideologically, but presenting good info; a lot of semantic cudgels swinging around). I’m wondering if it’s impossible.

]]> By: Jeff Harvey http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2007/12/03/dictator-humbly-accepts-narrow-electoral-defeat/#comment-116097 Jeff Harvey Mon, 03 Dec 2007 15:53:59 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2007/12/03/dictator-humbly-accepts-narrow-electoral-defeat/#comment-116097 Stan, excellent post. I had hoped that the referendum would pass, as it is one of the most progressive and democratic constitutions in South American history. Greg Wilpert's excellent book, 'Changing Venezuela by Taking Power' has detailed the progressive measures it contains, and the heroic efforts of Chavez to create something of a just and humane society in Venezuela whilst battling against the neoliberal order of the 'Washington Consensus'. The wretched state-corporate media in Europe, as well as in the U.S., have been attacking Chavez almost non-stop since he came to power. I live in The Netherlands and its no different here. I recently wrote a long and angry letter to the country's main 'liberal' newspaper recently after it published two appalling articles attacking Chavez; one was by a staff writer, the other was syndicated garbage originally published in the Washington Post. Neither had much of any substance, they were merely the usual ad hominem attacks. As Paul Farmer (whom you no doubt know, given your knowledge of Haiti) has explained, the mainstream western media is 'disfigured' by its subservience to corporate power and 'usual hostility' to progressive movements. Sadly, as I have explained, it is no different on this side of the pond. Stan, excellent post. I had hoped that the referendum would pass, as it is one of the most progressive and democratic constitutions in South American history. Greg Wilpert’s excellent book, ‘Changing Venezuela by Taking Power’ has detailed the progressive measures it contains, and the heroic efforts of Chavez to create something of a just and humane society in Venezuela whilst battling against the neoliberal order of the ‘Washington Consensus’. The wretched state-corporate media in Europe, as well as in the U.S., have been attacking Chavez almost non-stop since he came to power. I live in The Netherlands and its no different here. I recently wrote a long and angry letter to the country’s main ‘liberal’ newspaper recently after it published two appalling articles attacking Chavez; one was by a staff writer, the other was syndicated garbage originally published in the Washington Post. Neither had much of any substance, they were merely the usual ad hominem attacks. As Paul Farmer (whom you no doubt know, given your knowledge of Haiti) has explained, the mainstream western media is ‘disfigured’ by its subservience to corporate power and ‘usual hostility’ to progressive movements. Sadly, as I have explained, it is no different on this side of the pond.

]]> By: Winston Warfield http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2007/12/03/dictator-humbly-accepts-narrow-electoral-defeat/#comment-116092 Winston Warfield Mon, 03 Dec 2007 14:55:20 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2007/12/03/dictator-humbly-accepts-narrow-electoral-defeat/#comment-116092 Stan, I sent this letter to the Boston Globe today, in response to its liberal-media distortions on the Venezuelan referendum: In today’s headline, “Leader loses bid for broader powers”, you demonstrate perfectly how U.S. big media distorts and reframes political struggles in other countries. The reframing? That the referendum was mainly about “broader powers” for Chavez, as in the dreaded scare word: “dictator”. In fact the referendum was a complex piece which would have deepened and strengthened Venezuela’s social safety net (e.g. extending social security benefits to temporary workers), transferring some economic power from the traditional landed oligarchy to Venezuela’s poor and socially vulnerable. In only one plank, which would have eliminated term-limits, did it effect Chavez’ personal power. Keep in mind, he would still have to stand reelection. Yet in your related boston.com headline, you refer to the referendum as the “president-for-life” vote, which implants the meme in your readerships’ minds that oversimplifies a complex reality, morphing it into a cartoonish “good vs. evil” morality play, with which we’re so familiar these days. Winston Warfield Stan,
I sent this letter to the Boston Globe today, in response to its liberal-media distortions on the Venezuelan referendum:
In today’s headline, “Leader loses bid for broader powers”, you demonstrate perfectly how U.S. big media distorts and reframes political struggles in other countries. The reframing? That the referendum was mainly about “broader powers” for Chavez, as in the dreaded scare word: “dictator”. In fact the referendum was a complex piece which would have deepened and strengthened Venezuela’s social safety net (e.g. extending social security benefits to temporary workers), transferring some economic power from the traditional landed oligarchy to Venezuela’s poor and socially vulnerable. In only one plank, which would have eliminated term-limits, did it effect Chavez’ personal power. Keep in mind, he would still have to stand reelection. Yet in your related boston.com headline, you refer to the referendum as the “president-for-life” vote, which implants the meme in your readerships’ minds that oversimplifies a complex reality, morphing it into a cartoonish “good vs. evil” morality play, with which we’re so familiar these days.

Winston Warfield

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