Comments on: A double on Iraq from AT http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2008/02/12/a-double-on-iraq-from-at/ Making the Connections Wed, 08 Feb 2012 20:52:47 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Michael Anderson http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2008/02/12/a-double-on-iraq-from-at/#comment-144807 Michael Anderson Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:38:15 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2008/02/12/a-double-on-iraq-from-at/#comment-144807 Read Kaplan's Slate article, and one thing struck me, that generally seems to go unspoken in a lot of neo-con literature...a "smarter" soldier, I.E. one who scores in the higher percentiles and/or graduates from High School or College, is better able to perhaps reason out that the situation over there (and here in the economy) is untenable and just plain wrong. When times were relatively more peaceful, that is, when a majority of American troops were involved in mostly peaceful deployments, like to Europe and places where war was not being openly waged, this was not an issue, and a soldier (or officer) could think of his "job" instead of killing brown people for their oil. Now that the U.S. is (openly) at war with a lot of the world, these men (and potential recruits) find the rationale of a Fascist Corporatist Empire openly staring them in the face, and at a terrible contradiction to life here in the Magic Kingdom. I would think that gang members would have the necessary mindset to kill "the other" according to turf rules. From personal experience, I resisted the draft in '72 and got a 4-F (legit and according to protocol), because my number was 24 in the 1968 lottery...I wasn't going to Vietnam, period, because the contradictions of what was even then an Empire versus life growing up in a small timber town in Oregon were pretty apparent. Prediction is a dangerous thing, but...I think there will be another draft soon, perhaps after the Dems are elected in '08; since a Democrat proposed the present legislation that is tabled in committee in Congress in the first place, with accompanying patriotic media blitz to make it legitimate; and without the loopholes that we knew in the day. This may well bring the whole thing down. I hope I'm wrong and some more equitable solution will happen, but I ain't bettin' on it. Read Kaplan’s Slate article, and one thing struck me, that generally seems to go unspoken in a lot of neo-con literature…a “smarter” soldier, I.E. one who scores in the higher percentiles and/or graduates from High School or College, is better able to perhaps reason out that the situation over there (and here in the economy) is untenable and just plain wrong. When times were relatively more peaceful, that is, when a majority of American troops were involved in mostly peaceful deployments, like to Europe and places where war was not being openly waged, this was not an issue, and a soldier (or officer) could think of his “job” instead of killing brown people for their oil. Now that the U.S. is (openly) at war with a lot of the world, these men (and potential recruits) find the rationale of a Fascist Corporatist Empire openly staring them in the face, and at a terrible contradiction to life here in the Magic Kingdom.

I would think that gang members would have the necessary mindset to kill “the other” according to turf rules.

From personal experience, I resisted the draft in ’72 and got a 4-F (legit and according to protocol), because my number was 24 in the 1968 lottery…I wasn’t going to Vietnam, period, because the contradictions of what was even then an Empire versus life growing up in a small timber town in Oregon were pretty apparent. Prediction is a dangerous thing, but…I think there will be another draft soon, perhaps after the Dems are elected in ’08; since a Democrat proposed the present legislation that is tabled in committee in Congress in the first place, with accompanying patriotic media blitz to make it legitimate; and without the loopholes that we knew in the day. This may well bring the whole thing down. I hope I’m wrong and some more equitable solution will happen, but I ain’t bettin’ on it.

]]> By: eoinmonkey http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2008/02/12/a-double-on-iraq-from-at/#comment-144761 eoinmonkey Fri, 15 Feb 2008 15:35:27 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2008/02/12/a-double-on-iraq-from-at/#comment-144761 I was just reading this week that part of the reason historians credit with the collapse/destruction of the Roman empires was a growing refusal of Roman citizens of the educated or well-off classes to serve in the military- mainly because it was uncomfortable and poorly rewarded. This left their ongoing wars of conquest and consolidation increasingly in the hands of smaller and smaller legions of less motivated/professional troops, and (at best) untrustworthy proxies fighting for cash and booty. That rang some bells. I was just reading this week that part of the reason historians credit with the collapse/destruction of the Roman empires was a growing refusal of Roman citizens of the educated or well-off classes to serve in the military- mainly because it was uncomfortable and poorly rewarded. This left their ongoing wars of conquest and consolidation increasingly in the hands of smaller and smaller legions of less motivated/professional troops, and (at best) untrustworthy proxies fighting for cash and booty. That rang some bells.

]]> By: eoinmonkey http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2008/02/12/a-double-on-iraq-from-at/#comment-144760 eoinmonkey Fri, 15 Feb 2008 15:24:49 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2008/02/12/a-double-on-iraq-from-at/#comment-144760 Nothing says "I love you" like spicy food, and that is a fact. Nothing says “I love you” like spicy food, and that is a fact.

]]> By: Bench http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2008/02/12/a-double-on-iraq-from-at/#comment-144535 Bench Fri, 15 Feb 2008 00:30:30 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2008/02/12/a-double-on-iraq-from-at/#comment-144535 Good answer to a good question, Stan. But I wonder, what about the contractors? Do they travel with the military on its way out or are they on their own? I have heard the large number of contractors in Iraq used as a reason why we can't begin immediately withdrawing the military. I don't suppose anyone would want to, ahem, let the market decide. Good answer to a good question, Stan. But I wonder, what about the contractors? Do they travel with the military on its way out or are they on their own? I have heard the large number of contractors in Iraq used as a reason why we can’t begin immediately withdrawing the military. I don’t suppose anyone would want to, ahem, let the market decide.

]]> By: Stan http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2008/02/12/a-double-on-iraq-from-at/#comment-144521 Stan Thu, 14 Feb 2008 23:42:44 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2008/02/12/a-double-on-iraq-from-at/#comment-144521 For Valentines, we went whole hog. Sherry brought me home a gallon of milk. I made her a pan of chile <i>con carne</i>. For Valentines, we went whole hog. Sherry brought me home a gallon of milk. I made her a pan of chile con carne.

]]> By: DeAnander http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2008/02/12/a-double-on-iraq-from-at/#comment-144490 DeAnander Thu, 14 Feb 2008 20:18:11 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2008/02/12/a-double-on-iraq-from-at/#comment-144490 <i>TV ad shows a diamond pendant swinging slowly back and forth like a hypnotist’s pocket watch,</i> hardly subtle, eh. it's incredible to me that millions of people can sit in front of their TVs and see this stuff w/o putting a brick through the screen. TV ad shows a diamond pendant swinging slowly back and forth like a hypnotist’s pocket watch,

hardly subtle, eh.

it’s incredible to me that millions of people can sit in front of their TVs and see this stuff w/o putting a brick through the screen.

]]> By: Bruce F http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2008/02/12/a-double-on-iraq-from-at/#comment-144479 Bruce F Thu, 14 Feb 2008 18:51:32 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2008/02/12/a-double-on-iraq-from-at/#comment-144479 To Karl: I was just passing through and your comment caught my eye. I don't know what Stan has to say about V-day, but Twisty Faster nails it <a href="http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2008/02/12/how-cheap-is-your-love/" rel="nofollow">here.</a> To Karl: I was just passing through and your comment caught my eye. I don’t know what Stan has to say about V-day, but Twisty Faster nails it here.

]]> By: peggy http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2008/02/12/a-double-on-iraq-from-at/#comment-144401 peggy Thu, 14 Feb 2008 09:52:38 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2008/02/12/a-double-on-iraq-from-at/#comment-144401 Thanks, Stan. I knew you would have a good answer to my question, which is why I asked it of you. Now all we need is a really intelligent commander-in-chief, who sees the connections you see, who sees the need for the US to withdraw quickly from Iraq, and who is not too tied to corporate interests to push this withdrawal through. Thanks, Stan. I knew you would have a good answer to my question, which is why I asked it of you. Now all we need is a really intelligent commander-in-chief, who sees the connections you see, who sees the need for the US to withdraw quickly from Iraq, and who is not too tied to corporate interests to push this withdrawal through.

]]> By: Karl http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2008/02/12/a-double-on-iraq-from-at/#comment-144067 Karl Wed, 13 Feb 2008 19:36:57 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2008/02/12/a-double-on-iraq-from-at/#comment-144067 Sorry but where does one propose topics for the site? I definitely want to get to talking about Valentines day, and the beautifully blatant and unabashedly misogynistically patriarchal JC Penny commercials being shown on the east coast (wherein TV ad shows a diamond pendant swinging slowly back and forth like a hypnotist’s pocket watch, while a male voiceover says “I'm the greatest husband in the world. You love me soo much. etc”). It's like having Hoffman lenses on (They Live reference -if you havent seen the film, do so ASAP :)) or something. Karl Sorry but where does one propose topics for the site? I definitely want to get to talking about Valentines day, and the beautifully blatant and unabashedly misogynistically patriarchal JC Penny commercials being shown on the east coast (wherein TV ad shows a diamond pendant swinging slowly back and forth like a hypnotist’s pocket watch, while a male voiceover says “I’m the greatest husband in the world. You love me soo much. etc”). It’s like having Hoffman lenses on (They Live reference -if you havent seen the film, do so ASAP :) ) or something.

Karl

]]> By: Stan http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2008/02/12/a-double-on-iraq-from-at/#comment-143901 Stan Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:25:14 +0000 http://www.feralscholar.org/blog/index.php/2008/02/12/a-double-on-iraq-from-at/#comment-143901 Despite some of the ignorant nattering about "smart" vs "dumb", <a href="http://archives.econ.utah.edu/archives/a-list/2008w05/msg00027.htm" rel="nofollow">this Slate article</a> demonstrates what worries the Generals. Not only are they forced to recruit among the less educated, they are now waiving past criminal records to bring more bodies on board. There is gang graffitti in Baghdad. This is what it looks like as the empire begins to pull itself down in chaos. The body count was higher in Vietnam (so far), but the long-term consequences of the Iraq occupation will be seen by history as far more significant. And meanwhile, as Mark Jones once said, "The wolves of deflation are howling around the campfire." Despite some of the ignorant nattering about “smart” vs “dumb”, this Slate article demonstrates what worries the Generals. Not only are they forced to recruit among the less educated, they are now waiving past criminal records to bring more bodies on board. There is gang graffitti in Baghdad. This is what it looks like as the empire begins to pull itself down in chaos.

The body count was higher in Vietnam (so far), but the long-term consequences of the Iraq occupation will be seen by history as far more significant. And meanwhile, as Mark Jones once said, “The wolves of deflation are howling around the campfire.”

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