Coping with “stimulus,” from Orlov
“Right now the Washington economic stimulus team is putting on their Scuba gear and diving down to the engine room to try to invent a way to get a diesel engine to run on seawater.”
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Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for showing up. It’s certainly nice to travel all the way across the North American continent and have a few people come to see you, even if the occasion isn’t a happy one. You are here to listen to me talk about social collapse and the various ways we can avoid screwing that up along with everything else that’s gone wrong. I know it’s a lot to ask of you, because why wouldn’t you instead want to go and eat, drink, and be merry? Well, perhaps there will still be time left for that after my talk.
I would like to thank the Long Now Foundation for inviting me, and I feel very honored to appear in the same venue as many serious, professional people, such as Michael Pollan, who will be here in May, or some of the previous speakers, such as Nassim Taleb, or Brian Eno – some of my favorite people, really. I am just a tourist. I flew over here to give this talk and to take in the sights, and then I’ll fly back to Boston and go back…

NLK:
This is an interesting observation about gender:
“Women seem much more able to cope [with collapse]. Perhaps it is because they have less of their ego invested in the whole dubious enterprise, or perhaps their sense of personal responsibility is tied to those around them and not some nebulous grand enterprise. In any case, the women always seem far more able to just put on their gardening gloves and go do something useful, while the men tend to sit around groaning about the Empire, or the Republic, or whatever it is that they lost. And when they do that, they become very tedious company. And so, without a bit of mental preparation, the men are all liable to end up very lonely and very drunk. So that’s my little intervention.”
Given the possibilities of fascism, Mad Max-style violence, etc. in the event of a drastic contraction of state power, I think it’s useful for us to think through this gender stuff in relation to localized community organization.
18 February 2009, 10:14 pmStan:
Orlov’s observtion is interesting; and it sounds very Russian.
My own imagination of collapse is a bit les theatrical than Mad Max etc, and more benign if we act like we ave enough sense to talk to one another. The fascism part is always a threat when the middle classes are destabilized, because they are most dependent on the grid. Workers have practical know-how; and the rich have money. Those who have neither have placed their faith in the ephemera of management. They will seek a manager, follow instructions, and — for the men — have their wounded masculinity restored.
Our best sneak peek at this future was Katrina, where the government obstructed and stalled and bumbled, and young people who camped out there for months started food distribution networks, swamped houses, and re-established schools with local folks. They lived into a story where service to others was the prime directive. Imperfect as it sometimes was, it was hopeful.
I’m still convinced of the high value of the emerging food underground in this process… which is on the move, gathering strength, communicating between parts, and hammering together humming little islets of innovation and re-design.
19 February 2009, 6:14 amWaldow:
Orlov’s description of how to increase your gas mileage gave me a much needed laugh (and it is still safer than a motorcycle). He seems a practical person. He would never be admitted to Swift’s Academy of Lagado, where solutions must be novel and complicated in order to be considered. (http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext97/gltrv10h.htm).
It seems more people than usual are excited about growing food this spring. In Forest Grove we’re starting a community garden. The people who are new to gardening often get very excited about all the wonderful books out there with detailed descriptions of complex methods for growing vegetables. I get excited about them too, but often along with some good ideas, you get information overload (and many of the ideas are overworked and too generalized).
It is the time of year to get busy. These are the basics you need to know to grow a small vegetable plot in North America.
1) Pick a sunny spot facing the south.
2) Remove sod to the compost pile.
3) Double dig.
4) Remove weeds by hand.
5) Plant seeds and starts when the temperatures are warm enough, not sooner.
6) Remove weeds by hand, often.
7) Water everyday (more than the government says you should).
Besides this, you need to learn about building better soil, which will take a couple seasons. But don’t let having less than ideal soil stop you from starting. If you own your land, favor planting fruit trees and bushes i.e. perennials over a giant batches of row crops. It is less work and pretty in winter. And as Orlov points out, potatoes have calories many other row crops don’t.
A national farms to schools conference is coming to Portland. http://farmtocafeteriaconference.com/registration/
March 19 – 21
$230
Damned expensive, perhaps run by graduates of the Academy of Lagado? But the policy behind it is a great idea. As schools purchase more local produce, we save energy and build our local economy. Oregon has growing legions of out-of-work construction and nursery personnel needing work, too. Creating a useful role for the unemployed, often immigrants, will build community, unlike resentment building charity. I think I’ll put on a pointy hat and sneek in to a meeting or two.
There is an organization here in Oregon behind the idea.
19 February 2009, 1:57 pmhttp://www.foodsecurity.org/farm_to_school.html
Charles:
When the Soviet system went away, many people lost their jobs, everyone lost their savings, wages and pensions were held back for months, their value was wiped out by hyperinflation, there shortages of food, gasoline, medicine, consumer goods, there was a large increase in crime and violence, and yet Russian society did not collapse. Somehow, the Russians found ways to muddle through. How was that possible? It turns out that many aspects of the Soviet system were paradoxically resilient in the face of system-wide collapse,
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CB: Evidently, the SU had more of a grass roots and democratic society , working class people’s world there all along than a lot of observers and critics, West and East , thought. Was this a paradox or was it proof that working people ran things more than critics claimed ?
That the author evidently didn’t expect this, suggests he didn’t quite understand fully what was going on “at the base” of his country.
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many institutions continued to function, and the living arrangement was such that people did not lose access to food, shelter or transportation, and could survive even without an income. The Soviet economic system failed to thrive, and the Communist experiment at constructing a worker’s paradise on earth was, in the end, a failure.
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CB: Or maybe the collapse of the Soviet state was the state whithering away, as Marx prognosticated. And what is left is closer to the free association of free producers, or whatever, Since Marx didn’t predict a “workers paradise”, maybe this author is looking for the wrong thing, and what is there is closer to what Marx envisioned than he thinks.
Since the collapse of the Soviet state, I’ve always been interested in the reports like this one that people continued to survive “without income” or wages. That means that the money system, the wage system went “poof” ! That’s what is supposed to happen in communism.
Very interesting.
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But as a side effect it inadvertently achieved a high level of collapse-preparedness.
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CB: Maybe it wasn’t so inadvertent. Maybe the big ,bad Soviet state was a protective, scary mask worn to ward off the vicious imperialist system, and the real future society was grown on purpose underneath, with hardy roots. It is not likely an accident that the society he describes survived and functions.
You can be sure that they are growing a lot of local food in gardens.
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In comparison, the American system could produce significantly better results, for time, but at the cost of creating and perpetuating a living arrangement that is very fragile, and not at all capable of holding together through the inevitable crash. Even after the Soviet economy evaporated and the government largely shut down, Russians still had plenty left for them to work with.
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CB: My estimate is that he is mistaken that this was “inadvertent”. It was not a paradise, but it was a place where the working class was empowered and running their own lives.
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And so there is a wealth of useful information and insight that we can extract from the Russian experience, which we can then turn around and put to good use in helping us improvise a new living arrangement here in the United States – one that is more likely to be survivable.
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21 February 2009, 1:42 amCB: Hopefully. But unfortunately, we don’t have socialism, and they did.
Charles:
U.S. Intel Chief’s Shocking Warning: Wall Street’s Disaster Has Spawned Our
22 February 2009, 12:09 amGreatest Terrorist Threat
By _Chris Hedges_ (http://www.alternet.org/authors/5769/)
BuddhalovesPaine:
Charles, one problem I see with trying to put a rosy picture on the collapse of the central government is that average life spans in the former USSR decreased during this period. To me that is a quite important measuring stick.
22 February 2009, 8:59 amStan:
“Withering away”… yeah right. Mark, stolid Stalinist that he ultimately was, at least never allowed himself to be drug down into the morass of spin.
May 98
–Mark Jones
RIP
And neither will any of us… enjoy what we now think of as “prosperity.” That’s what Orlov is saying.
22 February 2009, 12:51 pmDeAnander:
wow — that’s a megacomment!
I’ve lifted this fascinating quote from MJ to a “lazy quote diary” over at ET, as it seems worth extended discussion by the energy-wonks there. thanks Stan!
22 February 2009, 3:04 pmjack:
stan- i am not familiar with mark jones’ writing do you have links to any more of his articles?
23 February 2009, 11:30 amMichael Anderson:
Having read “Reinventing Collapse” as well as several other pieces of Orlov’s writing (including this one on Organic Consumer’s website), I am waiting for the slowdown anticipating one thing—more time. A comment Orlov made in “Collapse” with his wonderful deadpan Russian humor, regarding people who are movers and shakers, or fancy themselves so, having a lot less to move and shake, and the ensuing dislocation and anxiety they will feel when they cannot drive a situation or people (or money). I think the frenetic pace of life “as we know it” will ease, along with the background noise it generates. I’ll lift a glass to slowing down. I remember the week after 9/11 when no planes were flying (except for the Bin Laden taxi), and marveling at the sky being so blue and clear…and quiet.
BTW, a diesel engine WILL run underwater for a time, being a sealed unit (I’ve seen it)….but not a very long time!
23 February 2009, 1:34 pmStan:
The archive set up by Lou Proyect seems to be down at the time, but if you put “mark jones” alongside the terms capitalism or soviet, you’ll get hits. Mark was married to a Russian, and spent a great deal of time thinking and writing about it. “Ecology” might be a good term, too; unlike many who ossified their analyses through a doctrinaire approach to marxism-as-method, Mark was extremely interested in issues related to biospheric destruction.
He died in his early 50s a few years back from epitheleal cancer. Some of his crankier stuff was written when he was physically miserable from treatments. Never dulled his wits though.
Here is a short note from Michael Keaney, just after Mark’s death, on Mark’s unfinished book. The shame is that his stuff is gradually disappearing from the internet. Repeatedly attacked form right and left as a “catastrophist” (he named his list “Crashlist”), his stuff now reads like prophecy fulfilled.
23 February 2009, 2:08 pmMichael Anderson:
S’cuse me….bad analogy on the diesel engine…it needs air from above water…the “periphery”, as it were. Where will our Wall Street/Fed/Gubmint boyz get the air now?
23 February 2009, 4:40 pmjack:
thanks Stan, I found some of his writing this morning but not nearly enough to satisfy. I’ll definitely be checking in on that archive once it’s back up.
@charles – as i am getting ready to marry a woman who grew up as her soviet satellite home country’s economy collapsed, i think i can say definitely that the collapse was anything but a planned event. people were left without jobs, money worth anything, a crumbling currupt healthcare system and at the same time anything with any real material value was either stripped out and sold or it quickly came under the control of mafiyas headed up by oligarchs who had usually been powerful people in the security services before the collapse. to make it out in a really positive light (other than the fact that the collapse was closer to a softish landing as opposed to a full blown societal collapse) i think is dishonest.
23 February 2009, 4:44 pm